Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
"nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)

My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.

When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
following situations:

1) After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
device listing section. (In other words, some cards were being
ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)

2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
installed no additional hardware.

3) I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
"Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
Device".

4) I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
I moved the card to a different slot. (Also, this "bad slot" in
question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
card and it seemed ok.)

To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
problem.

Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
the subject line problem, but that didn't work.

ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -

3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.

AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450

PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)

PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
fine.

PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
graphics card listed above.

PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.

Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.

Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by philo

philo
Sun May 25 05:18:11 PDT 2008


"rpgs rock dvds" <rpgsrockdvds@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:107e4962-7b42-470c-8c1e-412d56689b7f@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
> if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
> to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.
>
> When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> following situations:
>
> 1) After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
> BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> device listing section. (In other words, some cards were being
> ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> 2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
> saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> installed no additional hardware.
>
> 3) I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> Device".
>
> 4) I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
> I moved the card to a different slot. (Also, this "bad slot" in
> question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
> card and it seemed ok.)



This is fairly common.
Check to see if the bios has an option to set the pci resources to AUTO.
(some have both manual and AUTO options.)
Also see if you can find the manual for the mobo. If it has an AGP slot,
there are a few mobo's out there where you cannot use the PCI slot next to
it
if there is an AGP card in use.(Just to list one of many possible
idiosyncrasies.)
But basically, if a card does not work in one slot, but works OK in
another...
simply leave it that way. No sense in trying to force a configuration that
is just plain unworkable.




>
> To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> problem.
>
> Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
> in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> 3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
> which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450
>
> PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
> be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> fine.
>
> PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
> card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> graphics card listed above.
>
> PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.
>
> Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
> suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.



Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by MEB

MEB
Sun May 25 10:43:08 PDT 2008

To add to the above, Brian provided a link to emm386 information in the old
thread.

The PCI/ISA slot you reference is an *either* slot, pick which one you want
to use as the IRQ/addressing is shared, the same as Philo mentions sometimes
occurs with the AGP and first PCI slot [depends upon the board - might also
want to check to see if the BIOS has a specific setting for the slot; like
assign IRQ, or other.... SOMETIMES you can stick another card {non-video} in
the slot and Windows will recognize it as not in conflict {though you may
need to manually assign the IRQ and addressing}.
Also check whether you have enabled side-band addressing, wait a minute,,,
what version of AGP is it? If its the early 2 version [not 1.0 which really
wasn't AGP at all; VERY few cards actually functioned properly with it],
many of those had difficulty as they failed to fully or properly implement
the standard.

AMI had two diagnostic tools available, one called AMI Setup [which was a
full blown test tool], and another called AMITEST [basic diagnostics]. See
if you can find those old versions somewhere.

IF you continue to get BIOS errors which you described, first try those AMI
tools, then you may need to re-flash the BIOS [sometimes it took twice to
get it to *take*,, BTW, did you tell the flasher to replace the boot block?

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:OZYUeGmvIHA.3780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
|
| "rpgs rock dvds" <rpgsrockdvds@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
| news:107e4962-7b42-470c-8c1e-412d56689b7f@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
| > Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
| > "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
| > have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
| > if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
| >
| > My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
| > to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
| > AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.
| >
| > When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
| > following situations:
| >
| > 1) After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
| > BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
| > device listing section. (In other words, some cards were being
| > ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
| >
| > 2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
| > saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
| > installed no additional hardware.
| >
| > 3) I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
| > "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
| > would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
| > Device".
| >
| > 4) I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
| > card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
| > I moved the card to a different slot. (Also, this "bad slot" in
| > question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
| > card and it seemed ok.)
|
|
|
| This is fairly common.
| Check to see if the bios has an option to set the pci resources to AUTO.
| (some have both manual and AUTO options.)
| Also see if you can find the manual for the mobo. If it has an AGP slot,
| there are a few mobo's out there where you cannot use the PCI slot next to
| it
| if there is an AGP card in use.(Just to list one of many possible
| idiosyncrasies.)
| But basically, if a card does not work in one slot, but works OK in
| another...
| simply leave it that way. No sense in trying to force a configuration that
| is just plain unworkable.
|
|
|
|
| >
| > To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
| > Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
| > System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
| > NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
| > one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
| > problem.
| >
| > Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
| > never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
| > in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
| > to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
| > before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
| > the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
| >
| > ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
| >
| > 3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
| > which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
| > UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
| >
| > AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450
| >
| > PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
| > be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
| >
| > PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
| > fine.
| >
| > PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
| > card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
| > so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
| > graphics card listed above.
| >
| > PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.
| >
| > Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
| > suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.
|
|



Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by Franc

Franc
Sun May 25 14:22:53 PDT 2008

On Sun, 25 May 2008 03:36:54 -0700 (PDT), rpgs rock dvds
<rpgsrockdvds@hotmail.co.uk> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
>"nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
>have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
>if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)

You may like to try running nvram120 from real DOS with no memory
manager loaded.

You could also try the following utility:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/BIOSutil/Phoenix/pnpbtst7.exe

>My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
>to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
>AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.

<snip>

>2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
>saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
>installed no additional hardware.

That's because Windows re-enumerates your hardware and updates the
ESCD table in the NVRAM area of your BIOS chip. On a subsequent reboot
the BIOS undoes the changes made by Windows.

>To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
>Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
>System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
>NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
>one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
>problem.
>
>Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
>never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
>in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
>to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
>before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
>the subject line problem, but that didn't work.

Here is a dump of *all* your BIOS options, including the hidden ones:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SuperMicro/SBUB21.RPT

This was the BIOS image that I used (version R3.1):
http://www.supermicro.com/support/bios/BIOS_ZIP/sbub21.zip

Here is AMI's BIOS configuration utility:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SuperMicro/BCP760.EXE

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by rpgs

rpgs
Mon May 26 03:19:40 PDT 2008

On 25 May, 11:36, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> have to reboot. =A0(I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
> if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
> to revision 3.1 (latest). =A0The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 =A0(c) 1997.
>
> When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> following situations:
>
> 1) =A0After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
> BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> device listing section. =A0(In other words, some cards were being
> ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> 2) =A0I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
> saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> installed no additional hardware.
>
> 3) =A0I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> Device".
>
> 4) =A0I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
> I moved the card to a different slot. =A0(Also, this "bad slot" in
> question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
> card and it seemed ok.)
>
> To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> System/Device Manager. =A0This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> problem.
>
> Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> never seen so many options you can adjust. =A0I'm sure somewhere buried
> in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> before. =A0I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> 3 ISA slots =3D all completely empty now. =A0There *was* a legacy SB16
> which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> AGP slot =3D Matrox graphics card G450
>
> PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) =3D empty. =A0(This seemed to
> be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> PCI slot 2 =3D 3dfx card. =A0Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> fine.
>
> PCI slot 3 =3D Matrox graphics card G200 =A0(for connecting to above 3dfx
> card). =A0Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> graphics card listed above.
>
> PCI slot 4 =3D Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. =A0Works fine.
>
> Phew, that's it I think. =A0Sorry for the long post! =A0Thanks for any
> suggestions at all. =A0Best regards, Robert.

Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!

To summarise, ATM I have removed some cards leaving this config:

All 3 ISA slots filled with non-PnP sound cards.
PCI Slot #2 =3D graphics card.
AGP =3D graphics card.

I'm having no probs at all with the two graphics cards, no problems
with the BIOS, no Win98 problems either. I can now run nvram120.exe
if I don't use emm386. However, it doesn't provide any information
about the 3 non-PnP ISA sound cards. This may be normal, I'm not
sure.

Although I am getting no errors with any of the 3 non-PnP sound cards,
when I added in the 3rd card (an AWE32), it now makes the 1st card
(Roland SCC-1) either silent or occasionally it outputs very incorrect
sounds.

Regarding this soundcard problem, I think I might post this on a
soundcard google groups site, but in case anyone is interested, the
problem is summarised below -

Roland SCC-1 ~ IRQ=3D3, I/O=3D330. Works fine if AWE32 is not present,
otherwise is silent.

GUS Classic ~ IRQ=3D7 and also 7 for SB emulation (which I don't use),
I/O=3D240, DMA=3D3 (playback) and 3 (recording). Usually works fine with
all other soundcards, very occasionally goes silent.

Creative AWE32 ~ IRQ=3D5, I/O=3D220 and 300 (disabled MSEL jumper to avoid
330 which would clash with Roland SCC-1), 620 (awe effects), DMA=3D1 and
5. I also disabled the joystick and MPU-401 jumpers hoping that would
help matters.) Works fine with all other soundcards.

Problem summary =3D Roland SCC-1 does not cause any errors as such -
it's just silent now the AWE32 is in place.

Thanks again, Best regards, Robert.

Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by philo

philo
Mon May 26 04:52:55 PDT 2008


<snipped for brevity>
>
> To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> problem.
>
> Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
> in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> 3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
> which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450
>
> PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
> be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> fine.
>
> PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
> card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> graphics card listed above.
>
> PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.
>
> Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
> suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.

Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!

To summarise, ATM I have removed some cards leaving this config:

All 3 ISA slots filled with non-PnP sound cards.
PCI Slot #2 = graphics card.
AGP = graphics card.

I'm having no probs at all with the two graphics cards, no problems
with the BIOS, no Win98 problems either. I can now run nvram120.exe
if I don't use emm386. However, it doesn't provide any information
about the 3 non-PnP ISA sound cards. This may be normal, I'm not
sure.

Although I am getting no errors with any of the 3 non-PnP sound cards,
when I added in the 3rd card (an AWE32), it now makes the 1st card
(Roland SCC-1) either silent or occasionally it outputs very incorrect
sounds.

Regarding this soundcard problem, I think I might post this on a
soundcard google groups site, but in case anyone is interested, the
problem is summarised below -

Roland SCC-1 ~ IRQ=3, I/O=330. Works fine if AWE32 is not present,
otherwise is silent.

GUS Classic ~ IRQ=7 and also 7 for SB emulation (which I don't use),
I/O=240, DMA=3 (playback) and 3 (recording). Usually works fine with
all other soundcards, very occasionally goes silent.

Creative AWE32 ~ IRQ=5, I/O=220 and 300 (disabled MSEL jumper to avoid
330 which would clash with Roland SCC-1), 620 (awe effects), DMA=1 and
5. I also disabled the joystick and MPU-401 jumpers hoping that would
help matters.) Works fine with all other soundcards.

Problem summary = Roland SCC-1 does not cause any errors as such -
it's just silent now the AWE32 is in place.

Thanks again, Best regards, Robert.


Glad you are making some progress.
The non- PnP cards usually have jumpers on them for assigning resources
and can usually be made to work...eventually...
however due to such hassles, I tend not to use more than one ISA card per
machine...
if I have sufficient PCI cards/slots avail



Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by rpgs

rpgs
Mon May 26 07:48:21 PDT 2008

On 26 May, 11:19, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25 May, 11:36, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> > "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> > have to reboot. =A0(I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
> > if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> > My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
> > to revision 3.1 (latest). =A0The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> > AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 =A0(c) 1997.
>
> > When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> > following situations:
>
> > 1) =A0After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
> > BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> > device listing section. =A0(In other words, some cards were being
> > ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> > 2) =A0I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept=

> > saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> > installed no additional hardware.
>
> > 3) =A0I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> > "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> > would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> > Device".
>
> > 4) =A0I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> > card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
> > I moved the card to a different slot. =A0(Also, this "bad slot" in
> > question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
> > card and it seemed ok.)
>
> > To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> > Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> > System/Device Manager. =A0This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> > NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> > one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> > problem.
>
> > Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> > never seen so many options you can adjust. =A0I'm sure somewhere buried
> > in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> > to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> > before. =A0I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> > the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> > ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> > 3 ISA slots =3D all completely empty now. =A0There *was* a legacy SB16
> > which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> > UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> > AGP slot =3D Matrox graphics card G450
>
> > PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) =3D empty. =A0(This seemed t=
o
> > be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> > PCI slot 2 =3D 3dfx card. =A0Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> > fine.
>
> > PCI slot 3 =3D Matrox graphics card G200 =A0(for connecting to above 3df=
x
> > card). =A0Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> > so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> > graphics card listed above.
>
> > PCI slot 4 =3D Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. =A0Works fine.
>
> > Phew, that's it I think. =A0Sorry for the long post! =A0Thanks for any
> > suggestions at all. =A0Best regards, Robert.
>
> Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!
>
> To summarise, ATM I have removed some cards leaving this config:
>
> All 3 ISA slots filled with non-PnP sound cards.
> PCI Slot #2 =3D graphics card.
> AGP =3D graphics card.
>
> I'm having no probs at all with the two graphics cards, no problems
> with the BIOS, no Win98 problems either. =A0I can now run nvram120.exe
> if I don't use emm386. =A0However, it doesn't provide any information
> about the 3 non-PnP ISA sound cards. =A0This may be normal, I'm not
> sure.
>
> Although I am getting no errors with any of the 3 non-PnP sound cards,
> when I added in the 3rd card (an AWE32), it now makes the 1st card
> (Roland SCC-1) either silent or occasionally it outputs very incorrect
> sounds.
>
> Regarding this soundcard problem, I think I might post this on a
> soundcard google groups site, but in case anyone is interested, the
> problem is summarised below -
>
> Roland SCC-1 ~ IRQ=3D3, I/O=3D330. =A0Works fine if AWE32 is not present,
> otherwise is silent.
>
> GUS Classic =A0~ IRQ=3D7 and also 7 for SB emulation (which I don't use),
> I/O=3D240, DMA=3D3 (playback) and 3 (recording). =A0Usually works fine wit=
h
> all other soundcards, very occasionally goes silent.
>
> Creative AWE32 ~ IRQ=3D5, I/O=3D220 and 300 (disabled MSEL jumper to avoid=

> 330 which would clash with Roland SCC-1), 620 (awe effects), DMA=3D1 and
> 5. =A0I also disabled the joystick and MPU-401 jumpers hoping that would
> help matters.) =A0Works fine with all other soundcards.
>
> Problem summary =3D Roland SCC-1 does not cause any errors as such -
> it's just silent now the AWE32 is in place.
>
> Thanks again, Best regards, Robert.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just to update the ISA sound card situation:

If I remove the AWE32, and replace it with a legacy SB16, *everything*
works. (ie, I get the Roland SCC-1 working fine, and the SB16 also
works fine too. Plus the GUS works as well!)

The legacy SB16 has the MSEL jumper set to open which means the midi
address =3D 300 and not 330. The SB Diagnose utility accepts this value
OK no problems.

However, if I insert the AWE32 card back in the PC (with the MSEL
jumper also set to open, which means the midi address is 300 and not
330), and then run the Diagnose utility, Diagnose reports a problem
and will not accept 300 as a valid midi address. Strangely it accepts
330, even though the MSEL midi jumper is set to open which is 300.

Regards, Robert.

Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by rpgs

rpgs
Mon May 26 10:53:25 PDT 2008

On 26 May, 15:48, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26 May, 11:19, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 May, 11:36, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> > > "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> > > have to reboot. =A0(I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see=

> > > if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> > > My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS=

> > > to revision 3.1 (latest). =A0The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> > > AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 =A0(c) 1997.
>
> > > When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> > > following situations:
>
> > > 1) =A0After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that th=
e
> > > BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> > > device listing section. =A0(In other words, some cards were being
> > > ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> > > 2) =A0I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message ke=
pt
> > > saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> > > installed no additional hardware.
>
> > > 3) =A0I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> > > "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> > > would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> > > Device".
>
> > > 4) =A0I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> > > card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if=

> > > I moved the card to a different slot. =A0(Also, this "bad slot" in
> > > question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI=

> > > card and it seemed ok.)
>
> > > To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> > > Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside=

> > > System/Device Manager. =A0This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> > > NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> > > one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> > > problem.
>
> > > Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> > > never seen so many options you can adjust. =A0I'm sure somewhere burie=
d
> > > in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in=

> > > to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> > > before. =A0I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fi=
x
> > > the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> > > ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> > > 3 ISA slots =3D all completely empty now. =A0There *was* a legacy SB16=

> > > which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> > > UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> > > AGP slot =3D Matrox graphics card G450
>
> > > PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) =3D empty. =A0(This seemed=
to
> > > be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> > > PCI slot 2 =3D 3dfx card. =A0Was causing BSOD on install, but now seem=
s
> > > fine.
>
> > > PCI slot 3 =3D Matrox graphics card G200 =A0(for connecting to above 3=
dfx
> > > card). =A0Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"=

> > > so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> > > graphics card listed above.
>
> > > PCI slot 4 =3D Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. =A0Works fine.
>
> > > Phew, that's it I think. =A0Sorry for the long post! =A0Thanks for any=

> > > suggestions at all. =A0Best regards, Robert.
>
> > Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!
>
> > To summarise, ATM I have removed some cards leaving this config:
>
> > All 3 ISA slots filled with non-PnP sound cards.
> > PCI Slot #2 =3D graphics card.
> > AGP =3D graphics card.
>
> > I'm having no probs at all with the two graphics cards, no problems
> > with the BIOS, no Win98 problems either. =A0I can now run nvram120.exe
> > if I don't use emm386. =A0However, it doesn't provide any information
> > about the 3 non-PnP ISA sound cards. =A0This may be normal, I'm not
> > sure.
>
> > Although I am getting no errors with any of the 3 non-PnP sound cards,
> > when I added in the 3rd card (an AWE32), it now makes the 1st card
> > (Roland SCC-1) either silent or occasionally it outputs very incorrect
> > sounds.
>
> > Regarding this soundcard problem, I think I might post this on a
> > soundcard google groups site, but in case anyone is interested, the
> > problem is summarised below -
>
> > Roland SCC-1 ~ IRQ=3D3, I/O=3D330. =A0Works fine if AWE32 is not present=
,
> > otherwise is silent.
>
> > GUS Classic =A0~ IRQ=3D7 and also 7 for SB emulation (which I don't use)=
,
> > I/O=3D240, DMA=3D3 (playback) and 3 (recording). =A0Usually works fine w=
ith
> > all other soundcards, very occasionally goes silent.
>
> > Creative AWE32 ~ IRQ=3D5, I/O=3D220 and 300 (disabled MSEL jumper to avo=
id
> > 330 which would clash with Roland SCC-1), 620 (awe effects), DMA=3D1 and=

> > 5. =A0I also disabled the joystick and MPU-401 jumpers hoping that would=

> > help matters.) =A0Works fine with all other soundcards.
>
> > Problem summary =3D Roland SCC-1 does not cause any errors as such -
> > it's just silent now the AWE32 is in place.
>
> > Thanks again, Best regards, Robert.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Just to update the ISA sound card situation:
>
> If I remove the AWE32, and replace it with a legacy SB16, *everything*
> works. =A0(ie, I get the Roland SCC-1 working fine, and the SB16 also
> works fine too. =A0Plus the GUS works as well!)
>
> The legacy SB16 has the MSEL jumper set to open which means the midi
> address =3D 300 and not 330. =A0The SB Diagnose utility accepts this value=

> OK no problems.
>
> However, if I insert the AWE32 card back in the PC (with the MSEL
> jumper also set to open, which means the midi address is 300 and not
> 330), and then run the Diagnose utility, Diagnose reports a problem
> and will not accept 300 as a valid midi address. =A0Strangely it accepts
> 330, even though the MSEL midi jumper is set to open which is 300.
>
> Regards, Robert.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Problem solved!! This is what is needed to be done (in case anyone
else needs this information) -

If you are using soundblaster awe32 model ct2760 revision 3 card (must
be this card model and revision number, no other card or model
applies!), then do the following -

Get 2760r3cd.exe from here -

http://ftp4.de.freesbie.org/pub/misc/creative/creative/drivers/sb16awe/

Look at your card and find jumper J1 (which is labelled EEPROM) - it's
in the bottom left hand corner, next to jumper J2 (which is labelled
MSEL.)

Close this J1 jumper, so it's enabled/covered. (Also, open/uncover
the J2 jumper right next to it which is labelled MSEL in order to get
midi port address to be 300 and not 330.)

Extract the files inside 2760r3cd.exe to your soundblaster subfolder
(such as c:\sb16). (To extract the files simply run the .exe)

Then run setcard.exe This will allow you to configure your midi
address from the default 330 to 300.

Follow the extremely easy instructions on screen to set your midi base
address to be 300.

Then turn off your machine (it tells you to do this next.)

Uncover jumper J1 again (which is labelled EEPROM).

Turn on your machine. That's it, all done. Your card has been
reprogrammed to allow your midi port address to be 300 and not 330.

Best regards from Robert.

Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by MEB

MEB
Mon May 26 10:50:21 PDT 2008

Out of curiosity, why three sound cards?

The AWE32 uses more resources [IRQ and physical addresses] than the base
16bit cards do. Its also a bit more particular with "sharing" those
resources even when re-configured to supposed free or non-conflicting
resources.. Its use of time slices and memory allocation is also more
restrictive and demanding. Its related, in part, to 32bit verses 16bit
issues and how Windows assigns priority. If you checked the NET you have
found that the AWE32 does and did cause issues in certain systems and
configurations, and specific versions [country specific or other] each had
their own quirks.. With your three card configuration, you have compounded
all the underlying issues that might be involved.

Its also possible that the physical drivers are causing actual memory
assignment conflicts [memory being used beyond the LINK/stub [that's not the
actual terms, but might be understood more easily] base addresses that are
shown in the configuration], over-writing the others requests. Windows 9X
likes to run certain activities in certain areas of memory, when two or more
are in conflict, one gets "lost" or held in waiting, or just not run if it
can't be re-assigned elsewhere.

But beyond that, it isn't all that unusual to find adapters [and other
devices] that will not work together, be it video, network, scanners, or
other. You MIGHT be able to get the issues resolved by complete MANUAL
configuration of the slots in the BIOS [no plug and pray, no PnP assigned
addressing or OS] AND by manually configuring EACH card and adapter BY SLOT
within Device Manager, but a single crash [BIOS or system], and you would
likely be back to manual reconfiguration all over again.
Windows doesn't like it when it doesn't have control,, it "usually" retains
the information for one or two manually set cards [but not always], but when
everything is manually setup, it gets confused. And the first time the Find
New Hardware is run [by you or the system], its back to conflicts and things
that don't work as Windows has no idea how to configure the system, and much
of its *virtual* aspects have been essentially broken.

Don't take this wrong, you could or can, perhaps, get this to work, but
long term stability is questionable.

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

"rpgs rock dvds" <rpgsrockdvds@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:04456e1d-6dbb-49c6-9910-c523e9d5b24d@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 26 May, 11:19, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25 May, 11:36, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> > "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> > have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
> > if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> > My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
> > to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> > AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.
>
> > When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> > following situations:
>
> > 1) After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
> > BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> > device listing section. (In other words, some cards were being
> > ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> > 2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
> > saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> > installed no additional hardware.
>
> > 3) I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> > "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> > would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> > Device".
>
> > 4) I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> > card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
> > I moved the card to a different slot. (Also, this "bad slot" in
> > question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
> > card and it seemed ok.)
>
> > To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> > Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> > System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> > NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> > one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> > problem.
>
> > Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> > never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
> > in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> > to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> > before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> > the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> > ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> > 3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
> > which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> > UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> > AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450
>
> > PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
> > be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> > PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> > fine.
>
> > PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
> > card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> > so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> > graphics card listed above.
>
> > PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.
>
> > Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
> > suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.
>
> Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!
>
> To summarise, ATM I have removed some cards leaving this config:
>
> All 3 ISA slots filled with non-PnP sound cards.
> PCI Slot #2 = graphics card.
> AGP = graphics card.
>
> I'm having no probs at all with the two graphics cards, no problems
> with the BIOS, no Win98 problems either. I can now run nvram120.exe
> if I don't use emm386. However, it doesn't provide any information
> about the 3 non-PnP ISA sound cards. This may be normal, I'm not
> sure.
>
> Although I am getting no errors with any of the 3 non-PnP sound cards,
> when I added in the 3rd card (an AWE32), it now makes the 1st card
> (Roland SCC-1) either silent or occasionally it outputs very incorrect
> sounds.
>
> Regarding this soundcard problem, I think I might post this on a
> soundcard google groups site, but in case anyone is interested, the
> problem is summarised below -
>
> Roland SCC-1 ~ IRQ=3, I/O=330. Works fine if AWE32 is not present,
> otherwise is silent.
>
> GUS Classic ~ IRQ=7 and also 7 for SB emulation (which I don't use),
> I/O=240, DMA=3 (playback) and 3 (recording). Usually works fine with
> all other soundcards, very occasionally goes silent.
>
> Creative AWE32 ~ IRQ=5, I/O=220 and 300 (disabled MSEL jumper to avoid
> 330 which would clash with Roland SCC-1), 620 (awe effects), DMA=1 and
> 5. I also disabled the joystick and MPU-401 jumpers hoping that would
> help matters.) Works fine with all other soundcards.
>
> Problem summary = Roland SCC-1 does not cause any errors as such -
> it's just silent now the AWE32 is in place.
>
> Thanks again, Best regards, Robert.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just to update the ISA sound card situation:

If I remove the AWE32, and replace it with a legacy SB16, *everything*
works. (ie, I get the Roland SCC-1 working fine, and the SB16 also
works fine too. Plus the GUS works as well!)

The legacy SB16 has the MSEL jumper set to open which means the midi
address = 300 and not 330. The SB Diagnose utility accepts this value
OK no problems.

However, if I insert the AWE32 card back in the PC (with the MSEL
jumper also set to open, which means the midi address is 300 and not
330), and then run the Diagnose utility, Diagnose reports a problem
and will not accept 300 as a valid midi address. Strangely it accepts
330, even though the MSEL midi jumper is set to open which is 300.

Regards, Robert.



Re: EMM386: Unrecoverable privileged operation error #I7 by MEB

MEB
Mon May 26 11:03:44 PDT 2008

So the SB tool worked, okay, I stand corrected in this circumstance..

Thanks for posting the resolution.

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________


"rpgs rock dvds" <rpgsrockdvds@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ae5e4e94-6db9-4867-a4f1-efdec15a6922@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 26 May, 15:48, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26 May, 11:19, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 May, 11:36, rpgs rock dvds <rpgsrockd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Inside Win98SE's "pure DOS", when I run the DOS utility called
> > > "nvram120.exe", I see the subject line error on screen, and then I
> > > have to reboot. (I wanted to run this utility to see if I could see
> > > if a particular ISA card was installed correctly.)
>
> > > My mobo is Supermicro P6SBU revision 1.01, and I have flashed the BIOS
> > > to revision 3.1 (latest). The BIOS is called American Megatrends
> > > AMIBIOS setup, version 2.5 (c) 1997.
>
> > > When I was setting up the mobo (yesterday), I was encountering the
> > > following situations:
>
> > > 1) After installing my PCI cards (one at a time), I noticed that the
> > > BIOS appeared to be "forgetting" some of these cards in the POST
> > > device listing section. (In other words, some cards were being
> > > ommitted from the device listing on reboot.)
>
> > > 2) I also noticed that the "Checking NVRAM..." BIOS POST message kept
> > > saying "...Update OK!", even though between some reboots I had
> > > installed no additional hardware.
>
> > > 3) I also noticed that sometimes a PCI card would be listed as
> > > "Unknown Device", but if I moved the card to a different slot, it
> > > would then be correctly identified as (for instance) "Multimedia
> > > Device".
>
> > > 4) I have also encountered a BSOD when I installed a Diamond 3dfx
> > > card in one particular PCI slot, but then this BSOD would not occur if
> > > I moved the card to a different slot. (Also, this "bad slot" in
> > > question didn't seem to be a bad slot, as I tested it with another PCI
> > > card and it seemed ok.)
>
> > > To address some of the issues above, in Windows98SE I decided to
> > > Disable NVRAM/ESCD updates inside Plug and Play BIOS properties inside
> > > System/Device Manager. This appeared to fix the perpetual Checking
> > > NVRAM...Update OK! message on every reboot, and also appeared to fix
> > > one or two other resource conflict problems, but not the subject line
> > > problem.
>
> > > Regarding the BIOS (as described at the top of this message), I've
> > > never seen so many options you can adjust. I'm sure somewhere buried
> > > in these options is a "fix" for every problem I'm likely to stumble in
> > > to, but it's a technical minefield, because I've never used this mobo
> > > before. I tried loading in the BIOS Fail-Safe options to try and fix
> > > the subject line problem, but that didn't work.
>
> > > ATM, I have this hardware (which all seems to work) -
>
> > > 3 ISA slots = all completely empty now. There *was* a legacy SB16
> > > which worked perfectly, but I removed it to test a legacy Gravis
> > > UltraSound which didn't work, and so it was removed as well.
>
> > > AGP slot = Matrox graphics card G450
>
> > > PCI slot 1 (a shared slot with an ISA slot) = empty. (This seemed to
> > > be a bit of a problematic slot, so I've left it empty for now.)
>
> > > PCI slot 2 = 3dfx card. Was causing BSOD on install, but now seems
> > > fine.
>
> > > PCI slot 3 = Matrox graphics card G200 (for connecting to above 3dfx
> > > card). Works fine within a "Win98SE hardware configuration profile"
> > > so that I can toggle between this PCI graphics card, and the AGP
> > > graphics card listed above.
>
> > > PCI slot 4 = Creative PCIAudio ES1371 sound card. Works fine.
>
> > > Phew, that's it I think. Sorry for the long post! Thanks for any
> > > suggestions at all. Best regards, Robert.
>
> > Thanks a lot Brian, Philo, MEB and Franc for your helpful comments!
>
> > To summarise, ATM I have removed