<portions snipped for brevity>


I had run on too long and my message had appeared,
then dropped off the server. Since it was over 12k...
I thought maybe there was a 10 k limit.
I broke it down into parts...but only the second portion posted...
so I had to re-post the first part second.
Of course...the original post which had dropped off the server
came back.
Then happened one more time...so I started a new thread to observe the
behavior of my news server


I like to do nice things for people, BION, but generally speaking I am
totally useless. It's a long sad story. I /can/ fix a lamp :-)


I assure you that if you can fix a lamp...
you can fix a computer.




Though I go way
back and took my first course in FORTRAN IV at Milwaukee
School of Engineering back
in 1968. I was *shocked* that punch cards were being used.


I still used them in the late 70's when I worked (summer job, I never went
ANYWHERE) in the registrar's office of my college. The closest we got to
computers at the time, until 1980 IIRC, was an IBM Selectric with a tiny
memory for mass "customized" mailings etc.. That was pretty damn snazzy I
thought! But you still had to type in every address manually!


Though I prefer my old manual typewriter I have at least
one Selectric up in my attic. I also have one of IBM's original
electric typewriters. The museum in my city has one on display.
My favorite thing is the dial where you can set the keyboard
pressure for the number of carbon copies you are making.
The dial goes up to 10 !
If I set the dial to "ten copies" but just put a single sheet of paper
in the machine...if you hit the "0" it will punch a hole in the paper!!!!




It seemed absurd! Eleven years later when I went back to
school to get additional education for my job,
I was mortified that we were still using punch cards! It
seemed insane. After constructing a 68000 based machine for
one of my advanced courses...in May 1982
or so...I eventually grew to HATE computers so much that I
swore I would never touch one again.


Was it such an awful experience?


I don't know if there are any folks who hang out here
who are my age or older...but I can assure you that it you
had to write programs, then submit them on punch cards...
it was a good reason to hate computers. If you made as much as one
typo even the omission of a non-ambiguous parenthese...
the program would be "spit out" and you'd not only have to wait in line
to get at a punch card machine, you'd need to wait in line to re-submit
you program...then wait for others to submit...as they were run in batches.

I am not kidding you...it took an entire week to get one program
up and running. Today, you could do that work in a few minutes
if you are smart...but even a programming dummy like I am could
still get something running within a few hours.

Yes. I hated computers !!!!

<snip>



Wow. I was pretty clueless at the time and my college was an art school...
The closest I got to a computer was a basic video editying system and a
video synthesizer - but that was analog to begin with, and really not much
of a computer. I remember watching short analog computer graphics films
(conisdered valuable works of art) which the Whitney brothers (and others)
made at /great/ pains and then seeing almost EXACTLY the same things in
screen savers...



Great that you went to an art school. Though I do mostly photography
now...I've done quite a bit of art in the past.
The GF is a full time artist and is the executive director of the gallery
she runs within the auspices of the NPO where I do my volunteer
work. It was her volunteerism there, that has also gotten me involved.

More reading here: http://www.iccd.org/default.aspx

<snip snap>


absolutely nothing tougher!

I ROAR with laughter if someone on Usenet tries to insult
me. There is nothing like
a live Chicago crowd out to kill you!


I totally understand.


I've performed in Manhattan too...and finally pretty much
retired from poetry
when I finally won a poetry slam in Milwaukee!


Congratulations :-)



I got a tee shirt when I won. It took me six years to finally win a slam.
Some folks could win a slam on a monthly basis...
but it toughened me up. Even the Kadaitcha man..who is the biggest insulter
on all of Usenet is a rank amateur with his insults <G>



The highlight of my poetic career was in 1995... when I was
invited to the Peace Museum in Chicago
to read two of my poems at the commemoration of the ending
of WW-II with the bombing of Nagasaki.
The poem was deeply inspired by stories my father told
me...as he was among the first US troops
to go into the city after the bombing.


Wow. That must have been quite an experience for him.



I am haunted by the stories to this day. My father
was such an excellent story teller that I feel like I have walked
the streets of Nagasaki and have personally seen the destruction.
He brought home a jack knife he found on the streets
and I often thought about the person who owned it.
I later realized that the person who owned the knife
had been instantly vaporized...and the knife was all that was left.

One day my father discarded all his WW-II mementos...
stating : "Bad memories." But I have the entire jack knife memorized
and still see the broken blade, reground...and the cork screw used to open
bottles of Saki. I feel that I am forever linked to the departed
soul.






Anyway...Colleen was the one who got me interested in
computers when she gave me her old Packard Bell
back in 1999. I was with her when she bought it new in 1995
for $1600. I thought she was nuts!



The price was , if anything on the low side...
even for the time...I doubt it was top of the line.
It only had an 850 meg drive and 8 megs of RAM
In 1995 better machines were available.
Though Packard Bell was often maligned...
I am partial to them even to this day.
I had completely upgraded that machine as far as it could go...
and only retired it a few years ago. I restored it back to how it
was originally, and put it back into the original cardboard carton


That does sound a little expensive, even for those days. I guesss it must
have been that top-of-the line brand name!!!


Since the machine was a freebie...I took it home and
figured..might as well see what all this computer stuff is
about. Then I go hooked. When she owned the machine I would
never go near it, and if she ever wanted to show me
something... I literally ran out of the room screaming.


I would have liked to see that /laughs/.


I *really* was afraid of it!



<snipo>



It's horrible how these things have invisible yet SO powerful tentacles,
huh?



Yep!



<snap>



I had never even /heard/ of Linux then. The day MAY be approaching
though...



I started out with Red Hat 5.2
Sheesh, I did not even know what a partition was when I started...
from the time I got the CD...until the time I actually had Linux installed
and configured...was six months. The X-server...which runs
the GUI had to be manually configured. It was a lot of work!

Today, with Linux...you just boot off the cd and away you go...
many distros are even easier to install than Windows.

<more trimming>


I will NEVER get that far. My father used to write computer programs for
the huge boxes at universities they used in the 60's and 70's (does the word
mainframe apply to those?) to do his psychological statistics calculations,
but the closest I ever came to programming was making an IBM PC (the one
with 2 5¼ flopppies) draw a circle on the screen. It /was/ very satisfying.




Yep back in those days...they would have been main frames all right.
At the original company I worked for, our programmer was a guy
who had started out back in 1952. They transferred data (on punch cards)
between cities, using a pickup truck!




Every time I repair a machine...I look at
it as a new opportunity to learn something. To me, it's a
cheap education...way better than any college course I had
ever taken. I went to school for more years than
I'd care to admit...but learned much more on my own.


Same here.



<snp>


You are much more inquisitive than I am... I tend to get really nervous
and sweaty when things get really hairy and prefer to just start clean. And
I have never "worked" with computers - except when I did DTP and general
office boy crap at my last job, I /somehow/ quickly turned into the person
who had to show everyone how to use their computers. Yet I remained the
lowest paid person in the company. Even then I never built one, I was just
fairly good at software - I actually READ entire manuals just on principle!
The only actual "fixing" experience I've had is with my 3 machines (the 3rd
is an HP Vectra 486/66 which I can't even remember last firing up - but it
is built like a tank!) and a few friends' machines - but that just leads to
very unpleasant "misunderstandings". I have sworn to myself to NEVER help
any friend again.


If you work on old junk,there is nothing to get nervous about...
but if it's for a friend...that's a whole different story.

I have one friend who is a professional photographer and I build
and maintain all his machines. His work is so amazing that he keeps me
on a retainer.

Though I deeply respect the guy, I have to treat him like a kid
when it comes to telling him to *always* back up the data.

One afternoon, he lost a 200 gig HD (This was back when a 200 gig drive
was the largest one could get.) It was not detected in the bios...
so he brought the entire machine over to my shop.
He was worried sick. The drive contained thousands of images. Though they
were all scanned from 35mm film and he had the film stored properly...He had
about a years worth of Photoshop work on that drive...
cleaning up the images etc...and only a partial backup.

I sent the guy home and tried everything I could possible think
of...and still, though the drive would spin up...
it was not detected in the bios, no matter what I did
and I tried it in other machines.

By two in the morning...I went over the electronics
with a bright light and magnifying lens...and *thought* I found the
problem. One of those tiny surface mount capacitors had a seemingly bad
solder joint...and one end seemed to have bee lifted slightly.

I grabbed the smallest soldering iron I had...
but the tip look enormous. I was fatigued...so in a flash of good judgment
( something I rarely have) I decided NOT to work on it that night...but
instead tried to go to sleep. But had horrible nightmares
and woke up every hour in a cold sweat.

The next day I got the drive up and running.
then tackled a second drive that *merely* had a read/write error...
and the data recovery for that drive only took me about two more days
of continuous work <G> !!! Sheesh, did my friend ever get a nice
lecture...and today I think he owns more HD's than Maxtor!


<more snip>


I simply load a light Linux distro onto those.

Generally, Damn Small Linux (heck I can put that on a
100 meg drive and have plenty of room to spare)... then
offer the machines on Craig's list.


I never heard of that distro. Perhaps it is not as beginning-
user friendly as it is small?


Damn Small Linux is great. It's just a 50 meg download
so even folks with a dial up connection can get it, no hassle.
You just boot from the cd and it's a live distribution. You
can run it right from the CD..and the machine does not even need a HD.
There is a hard drive install option and it's quite quick and easy to to.
For older machines that can't boot from a cd they also have a floppy
available...which will access the cd and start the installation.


<snip>


Good for you. I am guessing me you are a conscientious and hard worker,
but that a lot of your time is spent in just sitting and watching things and
making sure nothing screws up - /then/ you spring into action like
WonderWoman! (I hope you don't mind the comparison.)
So you spend a fair amt. of time on the Usenet so you won't go crazy from
boredom. Or am I totally off?





When my mind is set to it...I am the hardest worker on the planet.
(or so it seems) Once I start a job, even if it takes all day...
i just go, go , go. Don't talk or eat until it's done.
The biggest job I was on was in a nuclear power plant.
I did need to take a few breaks there. Not only did we have all the
engineers and technicians from my office in there...we had to hired a bunch
of temps too. We worked 16 or 17 hours a day, six days a week
for six weeks continuously! That was one hell of a big job.
The project was way behind schedule...but the fault was not on our
end... We were paid a premium I assure you...but If I had to do it all over
again...they could keep the money.

The best part of the entire job was the fact that I had a higher security
clearance than the owner of the company I worked for.
(I was cleared to work unsupervised...as I was in fact one of the
supervisors. )When the owner of my company came in to see the job
progress, I was required to keep him in my sight at ALL times...
even when he had to go to the bathroom! That was quite humiliating
for him I assure you!!!


However. In addition the being such a hard worker...
I am also the laziest bum on the planet...
I went for something like 15 years on my job working 20 to 30 hour
weeks...until one day...someone mentioned to me kindly:

aaah, we do pay you you for 40 hours you know.

Of course, how could I tell them that I do about two hours worth of work
for every hour I am on the job?

Basically, I just worked slower and longer for a few months
until that blew over <G>

I have saved their butt so many times, they don't dare say too much.

<snip snap snout, this tale's told out>

Re: Ping: thanatoid by thanatoid

thanatoid
Sat May 03 10:03:40 PDT 2008

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in
news:HI-dnVqWvt5E0IHVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@ntd.net:

> <portions snipped for brevity>

/most understandable/

> I /can/ fix a lamp
> :-)
>
> I assure you that if you can fix a lamp...
> you can fix a computer.

Well, I have kind of fixed a few problems here and there, but
due to where I live and various, as they call them,
"circumstances", it's not really an option.

<SNIP>

> Though I prefer my old manual typewriter

I think we have 2 or 3 in the house. I sometimes wonder if I
will live long enough to see the day when a manual typewriter
and a bicycle will be among the most prized possessions a human
can have. (I tend to be an optimist, as you may have noticed.)

> I have at least
> one Selectric up in my attic. I also have one of IBM's
> original electric typewriters. The museum in my city has
> one on display. My favorite thing is the dial where you can
> set the keyboard pressure for the number of carbon copies
> you are making. The dial goes up to 10 !
> If I set the dial to "ten copies" but just put a single
> sheet of paper in the machine...if you hit the "0" it will
> punch a hole in the paper!!!!

I /think/ I might have seen that one once somewhere. And I
always thought the Selectric ball was an astonishing feat of
ingenuity and engineering!

> Was it such an awful experience?
>
> I don't know if there are any folks who hang out here
> who are my age or older...but I can assure you that it you
> had to write programs, then submit them on punch cards...
> it was a good reason to hate computers. If you made as much
> as one typo even the omission of a non-ambiguous
> parenthese... the program would be "spit out" and you'd not
> only have to wait in line to get at a punch card machine,
> you'd need to wait in line to re-submit you program...then
> wait for others to submit...as they were run in batches.
>
> I am not kidding you...it took an entire week to get one
> program up and running. Today, you could do that work in a
> few minutes if you are smart...but even a programming dummy
> like I am could still get something running within a few
> hours.

I think I understand now. (And we both know you are not a
programming dummy.)

> Great that you went to an art school.

Not so great that the ONLY useful thing I learned was how to
coil cables so they don't tangle. But it was the best 5 years of
my life.

<SNIP>

> Even the Kadaitcha
> man..who is the biggest insulter on all of Usenet is a rank
> amateur with his insults <G>

He IS getting terribly repetitious. At least his paragraphs of
non-stop swear words were funny! I KF him on and off, depending
on how boring he gets.

> One day my father discarded all his WW-II mementos...
> stating : "Bad memories." But I have the entire jack knife
> memorized and still see the broken blade, reground...and
> the cork screw used to open bottles of Saki. I feel that I
> am forever linked to the departed soul.

Wow. I would have tried to save that knife, just make sure HE
never saw it.

> The price was , if anything on the low side...
> even for the time...I doubt it was top of the line.

It was a joke - they were, as you know, considered rather
crappy. I am surprised to hear yours was working well.

> I have one friend who is a professional photographer and I
> build and maintain all his machines. His work is so amazing
> that he keeps me on a retainer.
>
> Though I deeply respect the guy, I have to treat him like a
> kid when it comes to telling him to *always* back up the
> data.
>
> One afternoon, he lost a 200 gig HD (This was back when a
> 200 gig drive was the largest one could get.)

<SNIP>

> I was fatigued...so in a flash
> of good judgment ( something I rarely have) I decided NOT
> to work on it that night...but instead tried to go to
> sleep. But had horrible nightmares and woke up every hour
> in a cold sweat.

WOW.

> The next day I got the drive up and running.

Of course :-)

<SNIP>

> Damn Small Linux is great. It's just a 50 meg download
> so even folks with a dial up connection can get it, no
> hassle. You just boot from the cd and it's a live
> distribution. You can run it right from the CD..and the
> machine does not even need a HD. There is a hard drive
> install option and it's quite quick and easy to to. For
> older machines that can't boot from a cd they also have a
> floppy available...which will access the cd and start the
> installation.

I'll keep it in mind for the dark day when I can no longer run
98SE Lite. Having never even SEEN Linux (except ONE screen shot
which looked disturbingly like Windows) it seems to me the
hardest thing will be to decide which distro to go with! I don't
think I would have the patience to try several.. not to mention
I DO use a 33.6 modem! But I have lots of time...

<SNIP>

> When my mind is set to it...I am the hardest worker on the
> planet. (or so it seems) Once I start a job, even if it
> takes all day... i just go, go , go. Don't talk or eat
> until it's done.

I used to be like that but I learned that it IS a good idea to
take a break and have a sandwich every 4-5 hrs. HINT!

<SNIP>
> When the owner of my
> company came in to see the job progress, I was required to
> keep him in my sight at ALL times... even when he had to go
> to the bathroom! That was quite humiliating for him I
> assure you!!!

Hee hee.

> However. In addition the being such a hard worker...
> I am also the laziest bum on the planet...
> I went for something like 15 years on my job working 20 to
> 30 hour weeks...until one day...someone mentioned to me
> kindly:
>
> aaah, we do pay you you for 40 hours you know.
>
> Of course, how could I tell them that I do about two hours
> worth of work for every hour I am on the job?

Same here.

I learned quite a few things about working after it was too
late.

Like: if you don't like a particular assignment, fuck it up.
Someone else will get stuck with it next time, and they will
just think you're not as smart as they thought you were. Idiot
me, I always did my best - ended up doing everyone's work while
they smoked out back, getting paid 5x what I was making. And
then, needless to say, since I did such a good job, I would
ALWAYS have to do that crap every time it came around, while no
one else did anything.

Another brilliant (and horribly true) statement which I read
somewhere (possibly in the Life is Hell cartoon) is: The guys
who used to beat you up at school are now your coworkers.

I like working, but crazy clueless bosses and lazy moron lying
weasel coworkers almost always seem to be a part of it.
Fortunately, my working days are over.

Anyway, after a few years (I can be a little slow, /many/ people
quit after 2 months), when I realized I was working for a total
lunatic, I totally gave up trying to improve things, and just
did what was basic.
Since he came in every once in a while with some idiotic "this
is very important, drop everything you're doing and do this
right now" stuff (translation: until when I come in 2 hrs later
with another 3 week project I need done IMMEDIATELY), I finally
realized I would /never/ be able to finish ANYTHING and just
worked on what was most interesting. It was ridiculous but I had
no confidence to go look for other work, and I was already past
the age at which people usually /get/ hired, regardless of
qualifications. I blew it, basically.

> <snip snap snout, this tale's told out>

Yes, we seem to have covered most of it...

Good idea starting a new thread - but I don't know how much more
there is to say. It is certainly a pleasure to have gotten to
know you a little better.



--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Ping: thanatoid by philo

philo
Sat May 03 10:46:19 PDT 2008




<portions snipped>

> > If I set the dial to "ten copies" but just put a single
> > sheet of paper in the machine...if you hit the "0" it will
> > punch a hole in the paper!!!!
>
> I /think/ I might have seen that one once somewhere. And I
> always thought the Selectric ball was an astonishing feat of
> ingenuity and engineering!

The IBM typewriter that I used to punch the holes was one of their
pre- Selectric models. The motor is pretty large...maybe a 1/8th HP???

>>
> I think I understand now. (And we both know you are not a
> programming dummy.)
>
Oh no! I am a *serious* programming dummy.
Yes, I could manage to write a few simple programs...
but I honestly did not have the skills for doing it professionally.
Ironically 1982 was the year I severed my ties with computers.
That was the year it all really started.
I ended up getting more involved in hardware.


> > Great that you went to an art school.
>
> Not so great that the ONLY useful thing I learned was how to
> coil cables so they don't tangle. But it was the best 5 years of
> my life.

//\\ a huge laugh for that one ||///

BTW: I am in the middle of an art project now...
my GF gave me one of her reject paintings to fix up a bit <G !!! G>
>
>
> > Even the Kadaitcha

<snip>
>
> He IS getting terribly repetitious. At least his paragraphs of
> non-stop swear words were funny! I KF him on and off, depending
> on how boring he gets.
I usually just ignore him.


<snip>
to open bottles of Sake. I feel that I
> > am forever linked to the departed soul.
>
> Wow. I would have tried to save that knife, just make sure HE
> never saw it.

It all happened fast...
he just grabbed everything all at once and pitched it out.
I never went out to the trash bin...I either never thought of it.
or maybe he told me to just leave it. Anyway the physical knife is of no
importance...it has held it's psychological impact for over 50 years
>
> > The price was , if anything on the low side...
> > even for the time...I doubt it was top of the line.
>
> It was a joke - they were, as you know, considered rather
> crappy. I am surprised to hear yours was working well.

I am the biggest joker in the world...
but someone tells me on or plays it sails over my head. <G>

The think I liked about that machine was that any hardware I
threw into it was accepted and installed with no problems.
Except for the floppy drive wearing out once.
it was otherwise completely reliable.

> ( something I rarely have) I decided NOT
> > to work on it that night...but instead tried to go to
> > sleep. But had horrible nightmares and woke up every hour
> > in a cold sweat.

<snip>
>
> WOW.

BTW: Though only used for backups...
that drive is still working.


<cut>
> > Damn Small Linux is great. It's just a 50 meg download
> >

<snp>
>
> I'll keep it in mind for the dark day when I can no longer run
> 98SE Lite. Having never even SEEN Linux (except ONE screen shot
> which looked disturbingly like Windows) it seems to me the
> hardest thing will be to decide which distro to go with! I don't
> think I would have the patience to try several.. not to mention
> I DO use a 33.6 modem! But I have lots of time...

Well if you want to fool with it...
on a 33.6k modem it may take six hours to download...
but I used to do stuff like then when I was on dial up.
I highly suggest a download manager.

You will also need a cd burned and software than can burn an .iso image

> I used to be like that but I learned that it IS a good idea to
> take a break and have a sandwich every 4-5 hrs. HINT!
>

I need to have a large breakfast before I start anything
and a lot of coffee. I do admit that I will have to eat from time
to time...but generally do so while I'm working.
Not a good practice...I need to learn to slow down
<snp>

bathroom! That was quite humiliating for him I
> > assure you!!!
>
> Hee hee.

BTW: I did not look too closely !
>> > Of course, how could I tell them that I do about two hours
> > worth of work for every hour I am on the job?
>

<snip>
> Same here.
>
> I learned quite a few things about working after it was too
> late.
>
> Like: if you don't like a particular assignment, fuck it up.
> Someone else will get stuck with it next time, and they will
> just think you're not as smart as they thought you were. Idiot
> me, I always did my best - ended up doing everyone's work while
> they smoked out back, getting paid 5x what I was making. And
> then, needless to say, since I did such a good job, I would
> ALWAYS have to do that crap every time it came around, while no
> one else did anything.

Yep that sounds familiar...
but at least after 33 years on the job I now have a few assistants
for doing the tedious work

>
> Another brilliant (and horribly true) statement which I read
> somewhere (possibly in the Life is Hell cartoon) is: The guys
> who used to beat you up at school are now your coworkers.

Well there was only one guy who beat me up in school...
that was in 4th grade...but I got him real good one day...
and he left me alone ever since. He used to beat up some of
my friends who were a lot tougher than I ever was...
but he ignored me entirely.

I assume that today he is either in prison
or the CEO of some major organization !!!!

> I like working, but crazy clueless bosses and lazy moron lying
> weasel coworkers almost always seem to be a part of it.
> Fortunately, my working days are over.

I was once in management but hated it.
The owner of the company called me in to congratulate me on a job well down.
Then he asked me how I did it.
Had I wanted to keep the job...I would simply have lied and told him that
"I rule the men with an iron fist!"
But since I wanted OUT of management ASAP I told him the 100% honest truth:
"I do NOTHING at all. I only hire people who can work completely without
supervision!"

Within a week, someone I had actually hired and trained...
became my boss. He had the good sense to tell me nothing...
but when he transferred to our Chicago office...
his underling became my boss. Another guy I hired and trained...
and within a few years he became the biggest A-hole in the world.
Every time I see him...I say: "That could have been me."

At first he tried to bully me but that didn't work.
Now he is afraid of me and won't even talk.
Even if he is in the office and I can make eye contact with him...
he'll approach the office manager...then she comes up to me
and relays his question.

Once in a while if no one else is in the office
well say "hi" to each other.

Blaah.

I'm 58 years old and have no plans for retirement...ever...
but when I get older...will probably work part time...elsewhere

>
<snip>



> no confidence to go look for other work, and I was already past
> the age at which people usually /get/ hired, regardless of
> qualifications. I blew it, basically.


When I encounter some idiot manager at work
who tries to tell me how to do the job I've held since before he/she was
born.
I do not argue. I smile, say "yes" then just do it my own way.
Sometimes they even tell me later: See told you that would work.

I smile widely and agree pleasantly
>
> > <snip snap snout, this tale's told out>
>
> Yes, we seem to have covered most of it...
>
> Good idea starting a new thread - but I don't know how much more
> there is to say. It is certainly a pleasure to have gotten to
> know you a little better.
>
>

Yes nice talking to you to.
Now you see how I was able to write non-stop for over 12 years.

It's the coffee you know!



Re: Ping: thanatoid by thanatoid

thanatoid
Sat May 03 23:49:14 PDT 2008

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in
news:qMadnY8_361wOYHVnZ2dnUVZ_oimnZ2d@ntd.net:

<SNIP>

>> > If I set the dial to "ten copies" but just put a single
>> > sheet of paper in the machine...if you hit the "0" it
>> > will punch a hole in the paper!!!!
>>
>> I /think/ I might have seen that one once somewhere. And I
>> always thought the Selectric ball was an astonishing feat
>> of ingenuity and engineering!
>
> The IBM typewriter that I used to punch the holes was one
> of their pre- Selectric models.

I understand that, I did not confuse them, I just put everything
in one paragraph :-)

> The motor is pretty
> large...maybe a 1/8th HP???

>>>
>> I think I understand now. (And we both know you are not a
>> programming dummy.)
>>
> Oh no! I am a *serious* programming dummy.
> Yes, I could manage to write a few simple programs...
> but I honestly did not have the skills for doing it
> professionally.

Well, then you're not a programming dummy, and it is enough to
look at a few programs to realize many "professionals"
(especially those in northwest Washington state) are idiots!

> I am the biggest joker in the world...
> but someone tells me on or plays it sails over my head. <G>

I have the same problem. That's why purely verbal communication
(like here) often gets me confused.

<SNIP>

>> I'll keep it in mind for the dark day when I can no longer
>> run 98SE Lite. Having never even SEEN Linux (except ONE
>> screen shot which looked disturbingly like Windows) it
>> seems to me the hardest thing will be to decide which
>> distro to go with! I don't think I would have the patience
>> to try several.. not to mention I DO use a 33.6 modem! But
>> I have lots of time...
>
> Well if you want to fool with it...

When I HAVE to I will.

> on a 33.6k modem it may take six hours to download...

My machine is on 24/7 half the time. (Is that a contradiction?)

> but I used to do stuff like then when I was on dial up.
> I highly suggest a download manager.

I use a great one called FileHound. Marvelous. Free demo
forever, but I paid for it - like I paid for Xnews.

> You will also need a cd burned and software than can burn
> an .iso image

Got all that. All of a sudden you are talking to me as if you
forgot that I am not TOTALLY ignorant of computers, just not as
good with them as you are!

%-/

<SNIP>

>> > bathroom! That was quite humiliating for him I
>> > assure you!!!
>>
>> Hee hee.
>
> BTW: I did not look too closely !

There are /some/ things /no one/ wants to see.

<SNIP>

> When I encounter some idiot manager at work
> who tries to tell me how to do the job I've held since
> before he/she was born.
> I do not argue. I smile, say "yes" then just do it my own
> way. Sometimes they even tell me later: See told you that
> would work.

That's one of the many reasons why you are successful and I am a
failure.

<SNIP>

> It's the coffee you know!

I read recently it's the second biggest trade product after oil!
And I always thought it was soybeans!


--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Ping: thanatoid by philo

philo
Sun May 04 07:43:48 PDT 2008


<snip>
>
> Well, then you're not a programming dummy, and it is enough to
> look at a few programs to realize many "professionals"
> (especially those in northwest Washington state) are idiots!

Though I am a good trouble-shooter. I absolutely assure you.
I am not a programmer of any sort. I stuck with it only long enough to prove
to myself that I could do it...then quit.

When I first got my job...I would attempt to tackle any technical problem
no matter how difficult. Though I somehow managed to get the job
done...after
33 years on the job I grew a lot smarter. I learned to say "NO" to jobs that
I did not feel
qualified to perform. If I am not reasonably sure I can get the problem
solved...
and can get a hold of someone better qualified in that particular area...
I refer the job to them. Sometimes it's a lot smarter to say: "That job is
beyond my capabilites."

>
> > I am the biggest joker in the world...
> > but someone tells me on or plays it sails over my head. <G>
>
> I have the same problem. That's why purely verbal communication
> (like here) often gets me confused.
>
Yes, facial expressions are a *very* important part of communication!
>
> >> I'll keep it in mind for the dark day when I can no longer
> >> run 98SE Lite. Having never even SEEN Linux (except ONE
> >> screen shot which looked disturbingly like Windows) it
> >> seems to me the hardest thing will be to decide which
> >> distro to go with! I don't think I would have the patience
> >> to try several.. not to mention I DO use a 33.6 modem! But
> >> I have lots of time...
> >
> > Well if you want to fool with it...
>
> When I HAVE to I will.
>
> > on a 33.6k modem it may take six hours to download...
>
> My machine is on 24/7 half the time. (Is that a contradiction?)

I always do stuff like that...sometimes <G>

>
> > but I used to do stuff like then when I was on dial up.
> > I highly suggest a download manager.
>
> I use a great one called FileHound. Marvelous. Free demo
> forever, but I paid for it - like I paid for Xnews.

I tend to use free stuff if possible...but some of it is so good
that I do pay anyway

> > You will also need a cd burned and software than can burn
> > an .iso image
>
> Got all that. All of a sudden you are talking to me as if you
> forgot that I am not TOTALLY ignorant of computers, just not as
> good with them as you are!
>
> %-/
>

****very sorry****

BTW: Just because I get them fixed does not mean I am good at it.
I am simply very persistent and don't give up until the njob is done.
I assure you, there is a lot of trial and error!

>
> >> > bathroom! That was quite humiliating for him I
> >> > assure you!!!
> >>
> >> Hee hee.
> >
> > BTW: I did not look too closely !
>
> There are /some/ things /no one/ wants to see.
>
<G>
>
> > When I encounter some idiot manager at work
> > who tries to tell me how to do the job I've held since
> > before he/she was born.
> > I do not argue. I smile, say "yes" then just do it my own
> > way. Sometimes they even tell me later: See told you that
> > would work.
>
> That's one of the many reasons why you are successful and I am a
> failure.
>


You are only a failure if you think you are a failure.
I have found that when I am working on something and reach a dead-end...
the best thing to so is stop wracking your brains...then walk away.
The solution often surfaces the next day...
after getting some sleep.

There are of course some problems, you seem to work out in your mind
during your entire lifetime

>
> > It's the coffee you know!
>
> I read recently it's the second biggest trade product after oil!
> And I always thought it was soybeans!
>
>

All I can say is I am glad that I live within walking distance of a coffee
roaster.
We go though a lot of it here



Re: Ping: thanatoid by thanatoid

thanatoid
Sun May 04 11:09:38 PDT 2008

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in
news:6uOdnWMnLLI7VoDVnZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@ntd.net:

<SNIP>

> When I first got my job...I would attempt to tackle any
> technical problem no matter how difficult. Though I somehow
> managed to get the job done...after
> 33 years on the job I grew a lot smarter. I learned to say
> "NO" to jobs that I did not feel
> qualified to perform. If I am not reasonably sure I can get
> the problem solved...
> and can get a hold of someone better qualified in that
> particular area... I refer the job to them. Sometimes it's
> a lot smarter to say: "That job is beyond my capabilites."

Unless your manager or company president is a moron.

Aside from my "bad attitude" (I always wanted to say "care to
look at my paycheck to understand my attitude, sir?" but I never
got the chance, he babbled non-stop even more than I do), the
main reason I was fired (after 8½ yrs) from my last job is that
the manager of the dept (the 10th or so in 6 years, that tells
you something...) decided that since (here he was correct) I was
better with software than anyone else, I should become the
"company software specialist" and (here he was a CRETIN) do all
AutoCAD work for the /engineering department/!

I write good English and I was lightning-fast with PageMaker at
the time, but I am NOT a fucking engineer/draughtsman! In VAIN I
tried to explain to him it took months if not years and usually
at least SOME university work before one could do much of
anything with AutoCAD - he was just too stupid. (Since I
mentioned my job yesterday, I had a very pleasant nightmare
about it a few hours ago...)

Anyway, we should not talk about this, or my being a failure. I
have accepted it and I just need to finally learn not to ever
mention it.

<SNIP>

>> %-/
>>
>
> ****very sorry****

It's OK. I babble so much it's easy to forget I am not an idiot.
Of course, MANY people think I /am/ an idiot - and they may well
be correct. I don't care.

> BTW: Just because I get them fixed does not mean I am good
> at it. I am simply very persistent and don't give up until
> the njob is done. I assure you, there is a lot of trial and
> error!

Life is trial and error. What I hate is that there are always
COMPLETELY NEW problems, so "experience" is very overrated
except in the psychological sense.



--
Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Ping: thanatoid by philo

philo
Sun May 04 11:43:31 PDT 2008


<snip>

> > 33 years on the job I grew a lot smarter. I learned to say
> > "NO" to jobs that I did not feel
> > qualified to perform. If I am not reasonably sure I can get
> > the problem solved...
> > and can get a hold of someone better qualified in that
> > particular area... I refer the job to them. Sometimes it's
> > a lot smarter to say: "That job is beyond my capabilites."
>
> Unless your manager or company president is a moron.

From what I've observed...
to be a "good" manager, being a moron is a great asset.
To have a horrible personality is a big help too!

>
> Aside from my "bad attitude" (I always wanted to say "care to
> look at my paycheck to understand my attitude, sir?" but I never
> got the chance, he babbled non-stop even more than I do), the
> main reason I was fired (after 8½ yrs) from my last job is that
> the manager of the dept (the 10th or so in 6 years, that tells
> you something...) decided that since (here he was correct) I was
> better with software than anyone else, I should become the
> "company software specialist" and (here he was a CRETIN) do all
> AutoCAD work for the /engineering department/!
>

My first job was that of a bus boy...when I was 16 years old.
I made $1.10 and hour plus a few small tips.
When someone asks me how much money I now earn...
I always tell them the wages I had earned as a bus boy.
They usually look at me in frustration, then ask again...
"But how much to you make now?" (as if it's any ot their business)

I smile at that point, conjure up a look of elite superiority and
with the most eloquent enunciative hauteur sneer: " !!!! TWICE as much!!!!


No one has ever failed to catch my humor there!

>
> >> %-/
> >>
> >
> > ****very sorry****
>
> It's OK. I babble so much it's easy to forget I am not an idiot.
> Of course, MANY people think I /am/ an idiot - and they may well
> be correct. I don't care.
>
>


You babble. I babble.

We walked to the river today...and the river babbled.

A family of geese and their goslings there.

I wiped my head:

There was no hair.



Re: Ping: thanatoid by thanatoid

thanatoid
Sun May 04 20:29:08 PDT 2008

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in
news:b5adnYHvwLNLnoPVnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@ntd.net:

<SNIP>

> My first job was that of a bus boy...when I was 16 years
> old. I made $1.10 and hour plus a few small tips.
> When someone asks me how much money I now earn...
> I always tell them the wages I had earned as a bus boy.
> They usually look at me in frustration, then ask again...
> "But how much to you make now?" (as if it's any ot their
> business)
>
> I smile at that point, conjure up a look of elite
> superiority and with the most eloquent enunciative hauteur
> sneer: " !!!! TWICE as much!!!!
>
> No one has ever failed to catch my humor there!

I am afraid I have to join the ranks of the idiots. :-(((

<SNIP>

> You babble. I babble.
>
> We walked to the river today...and the river babbled.
>
> A family of geese and their goslings there.
>
> I wiped my head:
>
> There was no hair.

/almost falls off chair from laughing/

You ARE a poet!


--
There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but
to be overcome--to be got over.

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Ping: thanatoid by DaffyDŽ

DaffyD®
Mon May 05 07:03:53 PDT 2008

Philo, you mean well and your objective is to help people. Thanatoid is a
first class idiot, moron, and horse's butt and that I why I block all of his
posts.
--
{ : [|]=( DaffyD®

If I knew where I was I'd be there now.


"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:b5adnYHvwLNLnoPVnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@ntd.net...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > 33 years on the job I grew a lot smarter. I learned to say
> > > "NO" to jobs that I did not feel
> > > qualified to perform. If I am not reasonably sure I can get
> > > the problem solved...
> > > and can get a hold of someone better qualified in that
> > > particular area... I refer the job to them. Sometimes it's
> > > a lot smarter to say: "That job is beyond my capabilites."
> >
> > Unless your manager or company president is a moron.
>
> From what I've observed...
> to be a "good" manager, being a moron is a great asset.
> To have a horrible personality is a big help too!
>
> >
> > Aside from my "bad attitude" (I always wanted to say "care to
> > look at my paycheck to understand my attitude, sir?" but I never
> > got the chance, he babbled non-stop even more than I do), the
> > main reason I was fired (after 8½ yrs) from my last job is that
> > the manager of the dept (the 10th or so in 6 years, that tells
> > you something...) decided that since (here he was correct) I was
> > better with software than anyone else, I should become the
> > "company software specialist" and (here he was a CRETIN) do all
> > AutoCAD work for the /engineering department/!
> >
>
> My first job was that of a bus boy...when I was 16 years old.
> I made $1.10 and hour plus a few small tips.
> When someone asks me how much money I now earn...
> I always tell them the wages I had earned as a bus boy.
> They usually look at me in frustration, then ask again...
> "But how much to you make now?" (as if it's any ot their business)
>
> I smile at that point, conjure up a look of elite superiority and
> with the most eloquent enunciative hauteur sneer: " !!!! TWICE as much!!!!
>
>
> No one has ever failed to catch my humor there!
>
> >
> > >> %-/
> > >>
> > >
> > > ****very sorry****
> >
> > It's OK. I babble so much it's easy to forget I am not an idiot.
> > Of course, MANY people think I /am/ an idiot - and they may well
> > be correct. I don't care.
> >
> >
>
>
> You babble. I babble.
>
> We walked to the river today...and the river babbled.
>
> A family of geese and their goslings there.
>
> I wiped my head:
>
> There was no hair.
>
>



Re: Ping: thanatoid by Bill

Bill
Mon May 05 11:27:22 PDT 2008

LOL. And, what's worse, even proud of it!

DaffyD® wrote:
> Philo, you mean well and your objective is to help people. Thanatoid is a
> first class idiot, moron, and horse's butt and that I why I block all of
> his
> posts.
> --
> { : [|]=( DaffyD®
>
> If I knew where I was I'd be there now.
>
>
> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:b5adnYHvwLNLnoPVnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@ntd.net...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> 33 years on the job I grew a lot smarter. I learned to say
>>>> "NO" to jobs that I did not feel
>>>> qualified to perform. If I am not reasonably sure I can get
>>>> the problem solved...
>>>> and can get a hold of someone better qualified in that
>>>> particular area... I refer the job to them. Sometimes it's
>>>> a lot smarter to say: "That job is beyond my capabilites."
>>>
>>> Unless your manager or company president is a moron.
>>
>> From what I've observed...
>> to be a "good" manager, being a moron is a great asset.
>> To have a horrible personality is a big help too!
>>
>>>
>>> Aside from my "bad attitude" (I always wanted to say "care to
>>> look at my paycheck to understand my attitude, sir?" but I never
>>> got the chance, he babbled non-stop even more than I do), the
>>> main reason I was fired (after 8½ yrs) from my last job is that
>>> the manager of the dept (the 10th or so in 6 years, that tells
>>> you something...) decided that since (here he was correct) I was
>>> better with software than anyone else, I should become the
>>> "company software specialist" and (here he was a CRETIN) do all
>>> AutoCAD work for the /engineering department/!
>>>
>>
>> My first job was that of a bus boy...when I was 16 years old.
>> I made $1.10 and hour plus a few small tips.
>> When someone asks me how much money I now earn...
>> I always tell them the wages I had earned as a bus boy.
>> They usually look at me in frustration, then ask again...
>> "But how much to you make now?" (as if it's any ot their business)
>>
>> I smile at that point, conjure up a look of elite superiority and
>> with the most eloquent enunciative hauteur sneer: " !!!! TWICE as
>> much!!!!
>>
>>
>> No one has ever failed to catch my humor there!
>>
>>>
>>>>> %-/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ****very sorry****
>>>
>>> It's OK. I babble so much it's easy to forget I am not an idiot.
>>> Of course, MANY people think I /am/ an idiot - and they may well
>>> be correct. I don't care.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You babble. I babble.
>>
>> We walked to the river today...and the river babbled.
>>
>> A family of geese and their goslings there.
>>
>> I wiped my head:
>>
>> There was no hair.



Re: Ping: thanatoid by philo

philo
Mon May 05 14:25:54 PDT 2008


"DaffyD®" <daffyd@woohoo.com> wrote in message
news:eUhScjrrIHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Philo, you mean we