Need Advice

Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have managed
to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.

The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend who
is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't look
like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.

Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye candy
and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next 5+
years.

My question:

Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration or
should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck without
regard for the operating system.

Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.

Gary
Sat Mar 29 15:18:44 PDT 2008

You can build your own machine and buy XP OEM copy on EBay. Or downgrade a
Vista machine. But I tend to agree with your friend. Shop Dell. It's what I
advise to family & friends.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
news:%23HF%23LoekIHA.4076@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have
> managed
> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>
> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend
> who
> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't look
> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>
> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye
> candy
> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next
> 5+
> years.
>
> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration or
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck
> without
> regard for the operating system.
>
> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.
>

Nigel
Sat Mar 29 15:47:32 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:
> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have managed
> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>
> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend who
> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't look
> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>
> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye candy
> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next 5+
> years.
>
> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration or
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck without
> regard for the operating system.
>
> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.
>

Wouldn't touch Vista with *anyone*'s ten-foot pole. SP1 has proven to be
the predictable fiasco, too.

If no other OS is suitable, then do whatever you can to get XP. In my 4+
months of using it, it has been remarkably stable (one would hope so
after 2 SPs - I won't try SP3 until it's been out there for a few months).

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

Bill
Sat Mar 29 16:00:27 PDT 2008

I'd suggest Dell and Windows XP (and NOT Vista).

Don't take too long, though, because as of June 30, you won't even be able
to get WinXP installed on any OEMs, anymore. In fact, you may not even be
able to buy the WinXP software locally then anymore. I got a Dell
Inspiron with WinXP, and it's been great.

Plus Dell's Community User Forums are VERY extensive and helpful for support
issues. But I still have my other older Dell here, with Win98SE (which I
also use).

You might want to consider fixing that old one up, too, as a second
computer. I still prefer some things in Win98SE over WinXP, chief amongst
them being that *I* can pretty much configure the system to be the way that
*I* want it to be, and not Bill Gates. :-) Plus it is lean. :-)

bobster wrote:
> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have
> managed
> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>
> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend
> who
> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't look
> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>
> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye
> candy
> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next
> 5+
> years.
>
> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration or
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck
> without
> regard for the operating system.
>
> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.

bobster
Sat Mar 29 16:37:27 PDT 2008

Thanks all for the good advice! I think I will go for a Dell Inspiron 530
with XP. I can get a well optioned one for $600-700. I was planning on
using my Samsung 19" flat panel but that would leave me without a display
for my old 98se dog which I DO plan on keeping active, so guess I'll go for
a new display with the 530.

One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks? I'm not
a heavy power user


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:esZmvCfkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
I'd suggest Dell and Windows XP (and NOT Vista).

Don't take too long, though, because as of June 30, you won't even be able
to get WinXP installed on any OEMs, anymore. In fact, you may not even be
able to buy the WinXP software locally then anymore. I got a Dell
Inspiron with WinXP, and it's been great.

Plus Dell's Community User Forums are VERY extensive and helpful for support
issues. But I still have my other older Dell here, with Win98SE (which I
also use).

You might want to consider fixing that old one up, too, as a second
computer. I still prefer some things in Win98SE over WinXP, chief amongst
them being that *I* can pretty much configure the system to be the way that
*I* want it to be, and not Bill Gates. :-) Plus it is lean. :-)

bobster wrote:
> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have
> managed
> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>
> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend
> who
> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't look
> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>
> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye
> candy
> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next
> 5+
> years.
>
> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration or
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck
> without
> regard for the operating system.
>
> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.

Gary
Sat Mar 29 17:10:30 PDT 2008

I always recommend Pro, for it's additional networking abilities, Remote
Access, etc. Even if you don't need them now, you may in the future, and
that's a lot of upgrading.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
news:euakgXfkIHA.5956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Thanks all for the good advice! I think I will go for a Dell Inspiron 530
> with XP. I can get a well optioned one for $600-700. I was planning on
> using my Samsung 19" flat panel but that would leave me without a display
> for my old 98se dog which I DO plan on keeping active, so guess I'll go
> for
> a new display with the 530.
>
> One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks? I'm
> not
> a heavy power user
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:esZmvCfkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I'd suggest Dell and Windows XP (and NOT Vista).
>
> Don't take too long, though, because as of June 30, you won't even be able
> to get WinXP installed on any OEMs, anymore. In fact, you may not even
> be
> able to buy the WinXP software locally then anymore. I got a Dell
> Inspiron with WinXP, and it's been great.
>
> Plus Dell's Community User Forums are VERY extensive and helpful for
> support
> issues. But I still have my other older Dell here, with Win98SE (which I
> also use).
>
> You might want to consider fixing that old one up, too, as a second
> computer. I still prefer some things in Win98SE over WinXP, chief
> amongst
> them being that *I* can pretty much configure the system to be the way
> that
> *I* want it to be, and not Bill Gates. :-) Plus it is lean. :-)
>
> bobster wrote:
>> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
>> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have
>> managed
>> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
>> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>>
>> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend
>> who
>> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
>> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
>> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't
>> look
>> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>>
>> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye
>> candy
>> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next
>> 5+
>> years.
>>
>> My question:
>>
>> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration
>> or
>> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck
>> without
>> regard for the operating system.
>>
>> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.
>
>

98
Sat Mar 29 17:40:51 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:

> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista
> consideration or
>
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my
> kilobuck without regard for the operating system.

If you (or everyone you know or can rely on) are completely incapable
of building a computer from scratch (in other words, if your only
realistic choice is to buy a fully assembled retail machine) then Dell
is probably the way to go. But beware the low prices because those
machines are really stripped-down and Dell charges a lot for simple
upgrades (like more memory, better CPU, better optical drive, etc).

And yes, Dell is still offering some machines with XP.

But you should be aware that you can still buy XP (retail version)
until the end (or start?) of June 2008, and you will still be able to
get the "System Builder" version of XP until January 2009. Which
means if you have the ability to put together a system from parts that
it should be no problem to buy a legit copy of XP for the remainder of
this year.

> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my
> kilobuck without regard for the operating system.

You can always buy (the best) machine and simply wipe the hard drive
and install XP on it if you want. I would never wish Vista on
anyone. Vista is a downgrade compared to XP.

On the other hand, if you are having a hard time saying goodby to
win-98, you really don't have to. It is (still) possible to put
together a new system with specific motherboard and video card
combinations that will run win-98 just fine.

Bill
Sat Mar 29 17:49:26 PDT 2008

That depends on your needs.
I'm not into networking, and all that, so for me, Win XP Home Edition was
all I wanted. Although "customizing" even that, will take you some time
("taming the beast", I should say - getting rid of some of the BS, (like
that dumb default, mixed bag Programs and Documents Start Menu - just for
starters).

bobster wrote:
> Thanks all for the good advice! I think I will go for a Dell Inspiron 530
> with XP. I can get a well optioned one for $600-700. I was planning on
> using my Samsung 19" flat panel but that would leave me without a display
> for my old 98se dog which I DO plan on keeping active, so guess I'll go
> for
> a new display with the 530.
>
> One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks? I'm
> not
> a heavy power user
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:esZmvCfkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I'd suggest Dell and Windows XP (and NOT Vista).
>
> Don't take too long, though, because as of June 30, you won't even be able
> to get WinXP installed on any OEMs, anymore. In fact, you may not even
> be
> able to buy the WinXP software locally then anymore. I got a Dell
> Inspiron with WinXP, and it's been great.
>
> Plus Dell's Community User Forums are VERY extensive and helpful for
> support
> issues. But I still have my other older Dell here, with Win98SE (which I
> also use).
>
> You might want to consider fixing that old one up, too, as a second
> computer. I still prefer some things in Win98SE over WinXP, chief
> amongst
> them being that *I* can pretty much configure the system to be the way
> that
> *I* want it to be, and not Bill Gates. :-) Plus it is lean. :-)
>
> bobster wrote:
>> Well, it looks like I've finally reached the end-of-life with my P11, 300
>> MHz Win98se machine. My master hard drive went belly-up but I have
>> managed
>> to limp along by replacing it with my properly re- jumpered slave drive.
>> Fortunately it was a clone of the master so it was able to boot-up okay.
>>
>> The dilemma: What to replace my computer it with. I have a good friend
>> who
>> is a well respected local Computer (since 1994) technician who strongly
>> recommends Dell, ONLY because they are the only ones who still sell XP
>> machines. His strong opinion is that Vista is very buggy and doesn't
>> look
>> like it is going to be cleaned up in the near future.
>>
>> Also he says the unique "features" of Vista are mostly troublesome eye
>> candy
>> and messy security items, and that XP will survive for at least the next
>> 5+
>> years.
>>
>> My question:
>>
>> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista consideration
>> or
>> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my kilobuck
>> without
>> regard for the operating system.
>>
>> Any thoughts, recommendations will be appreciated.

98
Sat Mar 29 17:49:27 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:

> One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks?

For home use, No.

There are two possible exceptions:

a) support for multiple CPU's

I *believe* that home will not fully support a core-2 Duo machine
because XP-home is limited to a single CPU.

b) support for multiple monitors / display adapters

I *believe* that XP-home has more limited support for multiple
monitors vs XP-pro - possibly only supporting a single adapter and
monitor.

All the other shit that XP-pro has vs XP-home you will NEVER use on a
home PC. But the above 2 items could make all the difference and are
what you should focus on when making your decision.

bobster
Sat Mar 29 18:45:05 PDT 2008

Interesting comment. I've thought about the possibility of a dual boot
98se/XP. Don't know if it makes sense, but like you, I am so comfortable
with 98 that I hate to give up on it completely. I'm a retired electrical
engineer but don't know if I'm up to building a machine from scratch. Might
be fun to try.


"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:47EEE193.1DE10BC6@Guy.com...
bobster wrote:

> My question:
>
> Should I limit my choices to Dell because of the XP/Vista
> consideration or
>
> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my
> kilobuck without regard for the operating system.

If you (or everyone you know or can rely on) are completely incapable
of building a computer from scratch (in other words, if your only
realistic choice is to buy a fully assembled retail machine) then Dell
is probably the way to go. But beware the low prices because those
machines are really stripped-down and Dell charges a lot for simple
upgrades (like more memory, better CPU, better optical drive, etc).

And yes, Dell is still offering some machines with XP.

But you should be aware that you can still buy XP (retail version)
until the end (or start?) of June 2008, and you will still be able to
get the "System Builder" version of XP until January 2009. Which
means if you have the ability to put together a system from parts that
it should be no problem to buy a legit copy of XP for the remainder of
this year.

> should I bite the bullet and go for the best machine for my
> kilobuck without regard for the operating system.

You can always buy (the best) machine and simply wipe the hard drive
and install XP on it if you want. I would never wish Vista on
anyone. Vista is a downgrade compared to XP.

On the other hand, if you are having a hard time saying goodby to
win-98, you really don't have to. It is (still) possible to put
together a new system with specific motherboard and video card
combinations that will run win-98 just fine.

dadiOH
Sun Mar 30 08:46:45 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:
> Interesting comment. I've thought about the possibility of a dual
> boot 98se/XP. Don't know if it makes sense, but like you, I am so
> comfortable with 98 that I hate to give up on it completely.

Less than a month ago, I installed WinXP Home OEM on my self-built Win 98
machine. I did the dual boot trip not because I am married to Win98 but
because I really didn't want the hassle of reinstalling all the programs I
have in Win98.

I installed a handful of programs to the XP partition (formatted NTFS) but
since it reads the 98 partition I can use the programs I have there too.
When first running those, some need to be re-registered and options set up
again since the original info is in the 98 registry; others run without
anything needed.

The XP user interface is considerably different from that of my highly
customized one in Win98 but by changing XP to the "Classic" look and a bit
of work they now look and function virtually identically. I rarely boot
into Win98.
_____________________

> I'm a
> retired electrical engineer but don't know if I'm up to building a
> machine from scratch. Might be fun to try.

Sure you can, assuming you can plug an electric light cord into an outlet :)
And it *is* fun.

1. Decide on the CPU you want to use

2. Find a motherboard compatible with the CPU

3. If you want/need any other add on cards, decide on them.

4. Plug CPU and RAM into MB

5. Mount MB in case

6. Hook on a drive.

7. Install OS

8. Shutdown, disconnect power, plug in any add in card to MB (one at a
time), reboot.

9. Install drivers as needed.

10. Goto #8 until finished.

If you have the space for it, get a BIG case - it is much easier to work in
one - with plenty of cooling. I like Antec but there are numerous.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Don
Sun Mar 30 06:28:40 PDT 2008

"bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
news:euakgXfkIHA.5956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Thanks all for the good advice! I think I will go for a Dell Inspiron 530
> with XP. I can get a well optioned one for $600-700. . . .

Concerning Dell -- be advised:
1. You need to draft approximate specifications, e.g.
512 Mb RAM or more (not 256 Mb as in the cheaper Dells)
e.g. hard drive size and speed, whether you want a separate
second hard drive, and how they should be partitioned (I
prefer two or more partitions each: Dell does not.)

2. Dell PCs are supplied with special Dell XP system disks
(not standard MS OEM system disks) and I think these disallow
restoration of individual MS modules or components. There
are "Rescue" CDs with diagnostics and repair tools, but the
"Restore" CD is preprogrammed to repartition (wipe) the hard drive
and reinstal everything from scratch. You would thus lose any
data not written to a previously created drive D: (cf. planning
partitions in #1. Of course XP's System Restore procedures were
intended to make reinstallation unnecessary: but they were never
quite perfected, cf. number of updates.)

3. Certain Dell and Microsoft functions are integrated, e.g.
Help files. This means standard MS manuals do not necessarily
apply to your PC. This is a pain.

For these reasons I would never buy Dell. But (nearly) everybody
needs a manual. I recommend the MS manual by Bott and Siechert
called MS WindowsXP Inside Out.

> One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks?

4. Yes, buy XP while you can (since XP will be withdrawn from the
market in favour of Vista) and make it the Pro version. You would
kick yourself if you later wanted something (fax, networking Remote
Desktop etc.) configured best (or exclusively) only in Pro.

5. If confident in the vendor, you can buy a used XP Pro PC for
less than half the price of new Dell systems.
http://www.bmtnet.com/instore/
shows what is on offer where I live, in one of the few surviving
old-style computer stores (where I buy components, have
parts tested etc.) On first boot you probably need to instal
scores of XP updates, but the MS web site automates this.

Peace of mind is worth hard cash, which is why some home
users buy Dell, although these units are packaged mainly for
bulk business users. If you are screwdriver-capable as far
as adding a 2nd hard drive to a PC, your dollars buy much more
in the used market (business PCs traded in by people
hornswoggled into going all-Vista, also peripherals e.g. printers.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

98
Sun Mar 30 07:40:11 PDT 2008

Don Phillipson wrote:

> > One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks?
>
> 4. Yes, buy XP while you can and make it the Pro version. You
> would kick yourself if you later wanted something (fax, networking
> Remote Desktop etc.) configured best (or exclusively) only in Pro.

Again, I think that's very poor advice.

And BTW, XP-home does have fax support:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306550

I previously posted 2 reasons why a home user should consider XP-Pro,
and I'll add a third here:

1) Multiprocessor support (ie core2-Duo and quad-core CPU's).
If your system has a dual or quad-core cpu (or you think you
will get one in the future) then you want XP-pro. End of
story.

2) Multiple display adapter support.
I believe that upon further investigation this is a non-issue.
There were reports that the first beta versions of XP-home did
not support multiple monitors, but that distinction is no longer
made between XP-home and Pro.

3) Upgrade-ability from other versions of Windows
XP-Pro will allow upgrading from all previous versions
of Windows (9x, Me, 2K) but XP-home will allow upgrading
only from 9x/Me. So basically you probably won't be able
to upgrade an installation of 2K to XP-home.

So the reasons for buying XP-pro vs Home come down to 2 reasons:

1) multi-processor support (dual and quad-core CPU's)
2) future upgrade potential from win-2K

If you're a power user, then yes there are some things that can only
be done in XP-pro (remote desktop and administration being the most
important), but for someone who is only now (in the year 2008)
considering using Windows XP, it's highly unlikely that such a person
would be in need of any of XP-pro's more esoteric capabilities.

Advice along the lines of -> "well you soon won't be able to get XP so
you might as well get the more advanced XP-pro version while you can"
is more of an arm-chair, gut-level advice with no merrit.

Gary
Sun Mar 30 09:25:31 PDT 2008

Everything you say about Dell applies to most ALL of the rest of the OEM
manufacturers, too. In fact, Dell is better than most. You also don't seem
to realize that Dell has both a Business and a Home division.

All in all, from what you wrote and the way you wrote it, you don't know
much about Dells, or about any other major manufacturer, either. Which
raises the question as to why you responded at all.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:eAQ65nmkIHA.1680@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
> news:euakgXfkIHA.5956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>> Thanks all for the good advice! I think I will go for a Dell Inspiron
>> 530
>> with XP. I can get a well optioned one for $600-700. . . .
>
> Concerning Dell -- be advised:
> 1. You need to draft approximate specifications, e.g.
> 512 Mb RAM or more (not 256 Mb as in the cheaper Dells)
> e.g. hard drive size and speed, whether you want a separate
> second hard drive, and how they should be partitioned (I
> prefer two or more partitions each: Dell does not.)
>
> 2. Dell PCs are supplied with special Dell XP system disks
> (not standard MS OEM system disks) and I think these disallow
> restoration of individual MS modules or components. There
> are "Rescue" CDs with diagnostics and repair tools, but the
> "Restore" CD is preprogrammed to repartition (wipe) the hard drive
> and reinstal everything from scratch. You would thus lose any
> data not written to a previously created drive D: (cf. planning
> partitions in #1. Of course XP's System Restore procedures were
> intended to make reinstallation unnecessary: but they were never
> quite perfected, cf. number of updates.)
>
> 3. Certain Dell and Microsoft functions are integrated, e.g.
> Help files. This means standard MS manuals do not necessarily
> apply to your PC. This is a pain.
>
> For these reasons I would never buy Dell. But (nearly) everybody
> needs a manual. I recommend the MS manual by Bott and Siechert
> called MS WindowsXP Inside Out.
>
>> One last question, is the pro version of XP worth the extra bucks?
>
> 4. Yes, buy XP while you can (since XP will be withdrawn from the
> market in favour of Vista) and make it the Pro version. You would
> kick yourself if you later wanted something (fax, networking Remote
> Desktop etc.) configured best (or exclusively) only in Pro.
>
> 5. If confident in the vendor, you can buy a used XP Pro PC for
> less than half the price of new Dell systems.
> http://www.bmtnet.com/instore/
> shows what is on offer where I live, in one of the few surviving
> old-style computer stores (where I buy components, have
> parts tested etc.) On first boot you probably need to instal
> scores of XP updates, but the MS web site automates this.
>
> Peace of mind is worth hard cash, which is why some home
> users buy Dell, although these units are packaged mainly for
> bulk business users. If you are screwdriver-capable as far
> as adding a 2nd hard drive to a PC, your dollars buy much more
> in the used market (business PCs traded in by people
> hornswoggled into going all-Vista, also peripherals e.g. printers.)
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>
>
>

Daave
Sun Mar 30 09:32:05 PDT 2008

98 Guy wrote:

> 1) Multiprocessor support (ie core2-Duo and quad-core CPU's).
> If your system has a dual or quad-core cpu (or you think you
> will get one in the future) then you want XP-pro. End of
> story.

This is wrong. "Multi processor support" does not refer to multiple
cores. It refers to physical processors. True, XP Home does support only
a single CPU, however it may certainly have multiple cores, such as the
examples cited above.

If one wishes to use two distinct processors, however, than XP Pro is
the way to go.

Daave
Sun Mar 30 11:24:11 PDT 2008

Don Phillipson wrote:

> Concerning Dell -- be advised:
> 1. You need to draft approximate specifications, e.g.
> 512 Mb RAM or more (not 256 Mb as in the cheaper Dells)

<snip>

Unless someone is in the market for a used computer, I'm pretty sure
that even the cheapest Dells on sale today have at least 512 MB of RAM!

> 2. Dell PCs are supplied with special Dell XP system disks
> (not standard MS OEM system disks) and I think these disallow
> restoration of individual MS modules or components. There
> are "Rescue" CDs with diagnostics and repair tools, but the
> "Restore" CD is preprogrammed to repartition (wipe) the hard drive
> and reinstal everything from scratch. You would thus lose any
> data not written to a previously created drive D: (cf. planning
> partitions in #1. Of course XP's System Restore procedures were
> intended to make reinstallation unnecessary: but they were never
> quite perfected, cf. number of updates.)

A colleague of mine recently purchased a Dell Vostro, which came with a
full-fledged (albeit branded) installation disk, which is capable of
being used to perform a repair install, so wiping the hard drive need
not be a concern.

Bill
Sun Mar 30 12:20:29 PDT 2008

I think the min RAM is probably 1 GB at this point (in preparation for
Vista).

Daave wrote:
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> Concerning Dell -- be advised:
>> 1. You need to draft approximate specifications, e.g.
>> 512 Mb RAM or more (not 256 Mb as in the cheaper Dells)
>
> <snip>
>
> Unless someone is in the market for a used computer, I'm pretty sure
> that even the cheapest Dells on sale today have at least 512 MB of RAM!
>
>> 2. Dell PCs are supplied with special Dell XP system disks
>> (not standard MS OEM system disks) and I think these disallow
>> restoration of individual MS modules or components. There
>> are "Rescue" CDs with diagnostics and repair tools, but the
>> "Restore" CD is preprogrammed to repartition (wipe) the hard drive
>> and reinstal everything from scratch. You would thus lose any
>> data not written to a previously created drive D: (cf. planning
>> partitions in #1. Of course XP's System Restore procedures were
>> intended to make reinstallation unnecessary: but they were never
>> quite perfected, cf. number of updates.)
>
> A colleague of mine recently purchased a Dell Vostro, which came with a
> full-fledged (albeit branded) installation disk, which is capable of
> being used to perform a repair install, so wiping the hard drive need
> not be a concern.

Bill
Sun Mar 30 12:30:28 PDT 2008

dadiOH wrote:
> bobster wrote:
>> Interesting comment. I've thought about the possibility of a dual
>> boot 98se/XP. Don't know if it makes sense, but like you, I am so
>> comfortable with 98 that I hate to give up on it completely.
>
> Less than a month ago, I installed WinXP Home OEM on my self-built Win 98
> machine. I did the dual boot trip not because I am married to Win98 but
> because I really didn't want the hassle of reinstalling all the programs I
> have in Win98.

You don't have to. You can use Laplink PC Mover. That's what I did. It
copied all my programs AND settings from my Win98SE computer over to the new
WinXP computer. There are a few hitches, in that you may still have to
reinstall (or uninstall and reinstall) a few of them afterwards, but it sure
saved a LOT of time and trouble. And I mean a LOT. :-)

> I installed a handful of programs to the XP partition (formatted NTFS) but
> since it reads the 98 partition I can use the programs I have there too.
> When first running those, some need to be re-registered and options set up
> again since the original info is in the 98 registry; others run without
> anything needed.
>
> The XP user interface is considerably different from that of my highly
> customized one in Win98 but by changing XP to the "Classic" look and a bit
> of work they now look and function virtually identically. I rarely boot
> into Win98.
> _____________________
>
>> I'm a
>> retired electrical engineer but don't know if I'm up to building a
>> machine from scratch. Might be fun to try.
>
> Sure you can, assuming you can plug an electric light cord into an outlet
> :)
> And it *is* fun.
>
> 1. Decide on the CPU you want to use
>
> 2. Find a motherboard compatible with the CPU
>
> 3. If you want/need any other add on cards, decide on them.
>
> 4. Plug CPU and RAM into MB
>
> 5. Mount MB in case
>
> 6. Hook on a drive.
>
> 7. Install OS
>
> 8. Shutdown, disconnect power, plug in any add in card to MB (one at a
> time), reboot.
>
> 9. Install drivers as needed.
>
> 10. Goto #8 until finished.
>
> If you have the space for it, get a BIG case - it is much easier to work
> in
> one - with plenty of cooling. I like Antec but there are numerous.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

98
Sun Mar 30 13:27:51 PDT 2008

Daave wrote:

> > 1) Multiprocessor support (ie core2-Duo and quad-core CPU's).
> > If your system has a dual or quad-core cpu (or you think
> > you will get one in the future) then you want XP-pro.
> > End of story.

> This is wrong. "Multi processor support" does not refer to
> multiple cores.

Microsoft is opaque as far as describing explicit processor support
for XP-home. There are many web-examples (or web-forum examples) of
discussions where there are various (and competing) claims.

However, here is some authoritative information from MS:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx

--------------
Q. How does this licensing policy affect products such as Microsoft
Windows XP Professional?

A. Microsoft Windows XP Professional and Microsoft Windows XP Home are
not affected by this policy as they are licensed per installation and
not per processor. Windows XP Professional can support up to two
processors regardless of the number of cores on the processor.
Microsoft
Windows XP Home supports one processor.
--------------

Note Micro$oft's answer for XP-pro:

"Windows XP Professional can support up to two processors
regardless of the number of cores on the processor"

Now note the answer for XP-home:

"Microsoft Windows XP Home supports one processor."

MS did not add "regardless of the number of cores on the processor" to
the answer for XP-home. In other words, MS did not specifically state
that XP-home has full support for multi-core CPU's (even if it only
supports a single CPU).

In any case, based on searching for and reading various webforum
discussions, it appears that the consensus is that XP-home will
support all the cores that exist on a single physical CPU on a given
system. Since practically 100% of all consumer (and even pro-sumer,
hobbyist, etc) systems made for the past few years will have
motherboards with
only 1 physical CPU socket, it's basically a given that XP-home vs
XP-pro would not be a factor when it comes to CPU support today.

Now if we are talking about hyperthreading, that's another issue where
definitive information is hard to get.

So what would have been the single most important reason today to
select XP-Pro over XP-home is effectively off the table. That leaves
basically no reason why anyone who is only now (in the year 2008)
considering XP would ever have a need for XP-Pro vs XP-home.

It's clear that MicroShaft would rather see people buy XP-pro vs
XP-home, and has been purposefully vague about some aspects of how
they differ in order to promote the idea that the average (or even
above-average) home user would see a tangible benefit from Pro vs
Home.

As for cost differences, I see the following on Tigerdirect.com:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Recs=30&Nav=|c:306|&Sort=4

Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 OEM Version ($90)
Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2 OEM Version ($140)

I would make the case that the extra $50 could be put to better use
buying a better keyboard, mouse, memory, CPU, or DVD burner for a
prospective new system.

And naturally, one can always purchase this item:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 ($295)

But it's beyond me why someone would choose that (or why a retailer
would offer it) vs the OEM version.

bobster
Sun Mar 30 17:16:24 PDT 2008

Well, the bullet has been bitten!

I ordered an XP Dell 530 Inspiron. With their current $100 discount and a
few extras like a 2Gig memory and a card reader, I'm out $529 less shipping
and tax. I plan on outfitting it with freeware such as Avast!, ZA, SpyBot
S&D, AdAware, etc. Definitely no Norton or McAffee stuff!

Thanks again for the many suggestions and helpful hints. I've been
monitoring this board for a number of years and have been bailed out of
trouble numerous times. I will miss all of you but guess I must now
transition to the XP group.

Cheers,

Bobster

==========================================================
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u0LRFypkIHA.5080@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
dadiOH wrote:
> bobster wrote:
>> Interesting comment. I've thought about the possibility of a dual
>> boot 98se/XP. Don't know if it makes sense, but like you, I am so
>> comfortable with 98 that I hate to give up on it completely.
>
> Less than a month ago, I installed WinXP Home OEM on my self-built Win 98
> machine. I did the dual boot trip not because I am married to Win98 but
> because I really didn't want the hassle of reinstalling all the programs I
> have in Win98.

You don't have to. You can use Laplink PC Mover. That's what I did. It
copied all my programs AND settings from my Win98SE computer over to the new
WinXP computer. There are a few hitches, in that you may still have to
reinstall (or uninstall and reinstall) a few of them afterwards, but it sure
saved a LOT of time and trouble. And I mean a LOT. :-)

> I installed a handful of programs to the XP partition (formatted NTFS) but
> since it reads the 98 partition I can use the programs I have there too.
> When first running those, some need to be re-registered and options set up
> again since the original info is in the 98 registry; others run without
> anything needed.
>
> The XP user interface is considerably different from that of my highly
> customized one in Win98 but by changing XP to the "Classic" look and a bit
> of work they now look and function virtually identically. I rarely boot
> into Win98.
> _____________________
>
>> I'm a
>> retired electrical engineer but don't know if I'm up to building a
>> machine from scratch. Might be fun to try.
>
> Sure you can, assuming you can plug an electric light cord into an outlet
> :)
> And it *is* fun.
>
> 1. Decide on the CPU you want to use
>
> 2. Find a motherboard compatible with the CPU
>
> 3. If you want/need any other add on cards, decide on them.
>
> 4. Plug CPU and RAM into MB
>
> 5. Mount MB in case
>
> 6. Hook on a drive.
>
> 7. Install OS
>
> 8. Shutdown, disconnect power, plug in any add in card to MB (one at a
> time), reboot.
>
> 9. Install drivers as needed.
>
> 10. Goto #8 until finished.
>
> If you have the space for it, get a BIG case - it is much easier to work
> in
> one - with plenty of cooling. I like Antec but there are numerous.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Gary
Sun Mar 30 17:54:18 PDT 2008

Last I looked it was 512MB in most cases.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uL7EgspkIHA.4480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I think the min RAM is probably 1 GB at this point (in preparation for
>Vista).
>
> Daave wrote:
>> Don Phillipson wrote:
>>
>>> Concerning Dell -- be advised:
>>> 1. You need to draft approximate specifications, e.g.
>>> 512 Mb RAM or more (not 256 Mb as in the cheaper Dells)
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Unless someone is in the market for a used computer, I'm pretty sure
>> that even the cheapest Dells on sale today have at least 512 MB of RAM!
>>
>>> 2. Dell PCs are supplied with special Dell XP system disks
>>> (not standard MS OEM system disks) and I think these disallow
>>> restoration of individual MS modules or components. There
>>> are "Rescue" CDs with diagnostics and repair tools, but the
>>> "Restore" CD is preprogrammed to repartition (wipe) the hard drive
>>> and reinstal everything from scratch. You would thus lose any
>>> data not written to a previously created drive D: (cf. planning
>>> partitions in #1. Of course XP's System Restore procedures were
>>> intended to make reinstallation unnecessary: but they were never
>>> quite perfected, cf. number of updates.)
>>
>> A colleague of mine recently purchased a Dell Vostro, which came with a
>> full-fledged (albeit branded) installation disk, which is capable of
>> being used to perform a repair install, so wiping the hard drive need
>> not be a concern.
>
>

Nigel
Sun Mar 30 23:10:02 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:
> Well, the bullet has been bitten!
>
> I ordered an XP Dell 530 Inspiron. With their current $100 discount and a
> few extras like a 2Gig memory and a card reader, I'm out $529 less shipping
> and tax. I plan on outfitting it with freeware such as Avast!, ZA, SpyBot
> S&D, AdAware, etc. Definitely no Norton or McAffee stuff!
>
> Thanks again for the many suggestions and helpful hints. I've been
> monitoring this board for a number of years and have been bailed out of
> trouble numerous times. I will miss all of you but guess I must now
> transition to the XP group.

Might not need to - I'm still here 4+ months after I switched and
haven't needed to go to "The Other Side" yet! Mind you, I still have my
98SE rig running.

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

Bill
Mon Mar 31 01:51:08 PDT 2008

Nigel Stapley wrote:
> bobster wrote:
>> Well, the bullet has been bitten!
>>
>> I ordered an XP Dell 530 Inspiron. With their current $100 discount and
>> a
>> few extras like a 2Gig memory and a card reader, I'm out $529 less
>> shipping
>> and tax. I plan on outfitting it with freeware such as Avast!, ZA,
>> SpyBot
>> S&D, AdAware, etc. Definitely no Norton or McAffee stuff!
>>
>> Thanks again for the many suggestions and helpful hints. I've been
>> monitoring this board for a number of years and have been bailed out of
>> trouble numerous times. I will miss all of you but guess I must now
>> transition to the XP group.
>
> Might not need to - I'm still here 4+ months after I switched and
> haven't needed to go to "The Other Side" yet! Mind you, I still have my
> 98SE rig running.
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Nigel Stapley

Yeah, we can stay in both groups. This Win98 group tends to be a little
nicer in some ways (i.e.: techie-oriented, with generally less BS in the
way. :-)

bobster
Mon Mar 31 11:39:02 PDT 2008

"Mind you, I still have my 98SE rig running."

I probably should have done that. I "saved" $190 on my new machine by
ordering it without a display as I had a very nice 19" Samsung flat panel
for my 98se that was relatively new. But now, the 98se machine is
display-less. Maybe I should visit my local used computer stuff store and
get a $25 CRT. ;-)

"Nigel Stapley" <unet@judgemental.plus.com> wrote in message
news:13v101pjshpslca@corp.supernews.com...
bobster wrote:
> Well, the bullet has been bitten!
>
> I ordered an XP Dell 530 Inspiron. With their current $100 discount and a
> few extras like a 2Gig memory and a card reader, I'm out $529 less
shipping
> and tax. I plan on outfitting it with freeware such as Avast!, ZA, SpyBot
> S&D, AdAware, etc. Definitely no Norton or McAffee stuff!
>
> Thanks again for the many suggestions and helpful hints. I've been
> monitoring this board for a number of years and have been bailed out of
> trouble numerous times. I will miss all of you but guess I must now
> transition to the XP group.

Might not need to - I'm still here 4+ months after I switched and
haven't needed to go to "The Other Side" yet!
--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

dadiOH
Mon Mar 31 13:53:32 PDT 2008

bobster wrote:
> "Mind you, I still have my 98SE rig running."
>
> I probably should have done that. I "saved" $190 on my new machine
> by ordering it without a display as I had a very nice 19" Samsung
> flat panel for my 98se that was relatively new. But now, the 98se
> machine is display-less. Maybe I should visit my local used
> computer stuff store and get a $25 CRT. ;-)

Is there some reason you can't unplug the monitor from your soon-to-be
new machine and plug it into the old one when and if you want to use
the old one?

--?

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

bobster
Mon Mar 31 15:44:39 PDT 2008

Yes, you're right. I could easily do that. Just a simple power cord and
VGA cable.

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
news:e8koDF3kIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
bobster wrote:
> "Mind you, I still have my 98SE rig running."
>
> I probably should have done that. I "saved" $190 on my new machine
> by ordering it without a display as I had a very nice 19" Samsung
> flat panel for my 98se that was relatively new. But now, the 98se
> machine is display-less. Maybe I should visit my local used
> computer stuff store and get a $25 CRT. ;-)

Is there some reason you can't unplug the monitor from your soon-to-be
new machine and plug it into the old one when and if you want to use
the old one?

--?

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico