Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
nothing)?

I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have a
voltmeter, however.

philo
Mon Apr 21 15:34:09 PDT 2008


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
> nothing)?
>
> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have
a
> voltmeter, however.
>
>
I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.
If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching' type
supply and may require
some load to run.

If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...
but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as it
could still be defective of course.

BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around
inside...
you need not go any further <G>

>

philo
Mon Apr 21 15:39:34 PDT 2008


"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:OIj4EAApIHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
<snip>

meant to toss this in

http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml

Bill
Mon Apr 21 19:35:38 PDT 2008

Thanks Philo. I may try that, although it's an old Dell power supply with
its own unique connector wiring.

I found this out after the fact; a normal ATX replacement power supply will
NOT work in these old Dells, and, in fact, can and will damage the MB.
I've been reading some horror stories about it too. Nice, really nice...

Which is where I am at now. :-(

I'm feeling pretty sure its the MB at this point, because when I put in the
new PS, nothing happened (dead computer), and when I put back my old power
supply, nothing works anymore either (evidently no power to anything, no
disk noises, no lights, no monitor screen, nothing)

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the MB has been hosed now (so there is no
PS_ON signal), so I'm not getting power to the MB anymore. I guess it
wouldn't matter if I did, because I'm pretty sure the MB has been "taken
out" at this point.

Thanks, Dell (for your proprietary connector wiring)


philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
>> nothing)?
>>
>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have
>> a
>> voltmeter, however.
>>
>>
> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.
> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.
>
> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'
> type
> supply and may require
> some load to run.
>
> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...
> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as it
> could still be defective of course.
>
> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around
> inside...
> you need not go any further <G>

Bill
Mon Apr 21 21:03:01 PDT 2008

OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply and
it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

Bill in Co. wrote:
> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
> nothing)?
>
> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have
> a
> voltmeter, however.

philo
Mon Apr 21 23:25:51 PDT 2008


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply and
> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
>
> Bill in Co. wrote:
> > Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
> > completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
> > nothing)?
> >
> > I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
> > shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
> > know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
have
> > a
> > voltmeter, however.
>
>

Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of course.

IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.


If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course need
to be a Dell
of approx the same vintage as the old one

Bill
Tue Apr 22 00:22:26 PDT 2008

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply
>> and
>> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
>>
>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a
>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
>>> nothing)?
>>>
>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily
>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't
>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
>>> have
>>> a voltmeter, however.
>
> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of course.
>
> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.

I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the
replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>
> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course need
> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

philo
Tue Apr 22 05:00:23 PDT 2008


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply
> >> and
> >> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
> >>
> >> Bill in Co. wrote:
> >>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for
a
> >>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
> >>> nothing)?
> >>>
> >>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
temporarily
> >>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
don't
> >>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
> >>> have
> >>> a voltmeter, however.
> >
> > Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
course.
> >
> > IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.
>
> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the
> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
>

Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare proprietary
supplies...
actually used one about a year ago.


> >
> > If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course
need
> > to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
>
> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
>
>
Glad you could get the same board...
Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the cmos?
Sometimes that's all it takes...
Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

Bill
Tue Apr 22 11:16:54 PDT 2008

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply
>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
>>>>
>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for
>>>>> a
>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,
>>>>> nothing)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
>>>>> temporarily
>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.
>>>
>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.
>>
>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the
>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
>
> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare proprietary
> supplies...
> actually used one about a year ago.

Interesting!

>>>
>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course
>>> need
>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
>>
>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
>>
> Glad you could get the same board...
> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the
> cmos?
> Sometimes that's all it takes...
> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure the
MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the
Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages and
even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor
upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to Intel
xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).

But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my original
Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that
version (or close to it).

However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to
Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the computer
at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

So my question is:
Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that extra
USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly
older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap microprocessor
and BIOS updates.

What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard drive
already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which
added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a possible
problem?

philo
Tue Apr 22 14:22:30 PDT 2008


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >> philo wrote:
> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power
supply
> >>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
> >>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities
(for
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk
activity,
> >>>>> nothing)?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
> >>>>> temporarily
> >>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
> >>>>> don't
> >>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
> >>>>> have a voltmeter, however.
> >>>
> >>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
> >>> course.
> >>>
> >>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer
machines.
> >>
> >> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
> >> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get
the
> >> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
> >
> > Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
> > I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare
proprietary
> > supplies...
> > actually used one about a year ago.
>
> Interesting!
>
> >>>
> >>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course
> >>> need
> >>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
> >>
> >> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
> >>
> > Glad you could get the same board...
> > Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the
> > cmos?
> > Sometimes that's all it takes...
> > Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway
>
> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure
the
> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the
> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages
and
> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).
>
> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor
> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to Intel
> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).
>
> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my original
> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that
> version (or close to it).
>
> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to
> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the
computer
> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.
>
> So my question is:
> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that
extra
> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly
> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap microprocessor
> and BIOS updates.
>
> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard
drive
> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which
> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a
possible
> problem?
>
>


Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...
but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself
with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too
likely the change of a few USB components
will hurt anything.

There are of course no guarantees but I would not expect any trouble

Bill
Tue Apr 22 17:11:18 PDT 2008

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power
>>>>>> supply
>>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities
>>>>>>> (for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk
>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>> nothing)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
>>>>>>> temporarily
>>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do
>>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
>>>>> course.
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer
>>>>> machines.
>>>>
>>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
>>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get
>>>> the
>>>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
>>>
>>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
>>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare
>>> proprietary
>>> supplies...
>>> actually used one about a year ago.
>>
>> Interesting!
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course
>>>>> need
>>>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
>>>>
>>> Glad you could get the same board...
>>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the
>>> cmos?
>>> Sometimes that's all it takes...
>>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway
>>
>> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure
>> the
>> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the
>> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages
>> and
>> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).
>>
>> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor
>> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to
>> Intel
>> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).
>>
>> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my
>> original
>> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that
>> version (or close to it).
>>
>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to
>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the
>> computer
>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.
>>
>> So my question is:
>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that
>> extra
>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly
>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap
>> microprocessor
>> and BIOS updates.
>>
>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard
>> drive
>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which
>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a
>> possible
>> problem?
>>
>
> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...

Yup, that's it.

> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself
> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.
>
> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too
> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS
ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host Controller,
as follows:

I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),
and it added a:
Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),
AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know. Does
that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an additional
controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place of
the older one (type 2442)

So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB
Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,
nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand
what's going on there, though).

philo
Wed Apr 23 04:34:07 PDT 2008


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uFM4PaNpIHA.5916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >> philo wrote:
> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>> philo wrote:
> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power
> >>>>>> supply
> >>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
> >>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities
> >>>>>>> (for
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk
> >>>>>>> activity,
> >>>>>>> nothing)?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
> >>>>>>> temporarily
> >>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
> >>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I
do
> >>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
> >>>>> course.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer
> >>>>> machines.
> >>>>
> >>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
> >>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get
> >>>> the
> >>>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
> >>>
> >>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
> >>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare
> >>> proprietary
> >>> supplies...
> >>> actually used one about a year ago.
> >>
> >> Interesting!
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of
course
> >>>>> need
> >>>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
> >>>>
> >>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
> >>>>
> >>> Glad you could get the same board...
> >>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the
> >>> cmos?
> >>> Sometimes that's all it takes...
> >>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway
> >>
> >> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure
> >> the
> >> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to
the
> >> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages
> >> and
> >> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).
> >>
> >> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor
> >> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to
> >> Intel
> >> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).
> >>
> >> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my
> >> original
> >> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for
that
> >> version (or close to it).
> >>
> >> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to
> >> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the
> >> computer
> >> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
> >> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.
> >>
> >> So my question is:
> >> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that
> >> extra
> >> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a
slightly
> >> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap
> >> microprocessor
> >> and BIOS updates.
> >>
> >> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard
> >> drive
> >> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which
> >> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a
> >> possible
> >> problem?
> >>
> >
> > Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...
>
> Yup, that's it.
>
> > but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself
> > with minor changes to your hardware or bios.
> >
> > Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too
> > likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.
>
> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS
> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host
Controller,
> as follows:
>
> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),
> and it added a:
> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),
> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.
Does
> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an
additional
> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place
of
> the older one (type 2442)
>
> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB
> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,
> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand
> what's going on there, though).
>
>

Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.
If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be uninstalled
(but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt anything)
Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.
If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will be
prompted for them.

Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be reinstalled
with no prompting.
Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll just
see a warning in "device manager"

Bill
Wed Apr 23 10:51:08 PDT 2008

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:uFM4PaNpIHA.5916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power
>>>>>>>> supply
>>>>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities
>>>>>>>>> (for a
>>>>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk
>>>>>>>>> activity, nothing)?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by
>>>>>>>>> temporarily
>>>>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of
>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer
>>>>>>> machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.
>>>>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get
>>>>>> the replacement power supplies from them, and only them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!
>>>>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare
>>>>> proprietary supplies...
>>>>> actually used one about a year ago.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting!
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> need to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..
>>>>>>
>>>>> Glad you could get the same board...
>>>>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the
>>>>> cmos?
>>>>> Sometimes that's all it takes...
>>>>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway
>>>>
>>>> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure
>>>> the
>>>> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to
>>>> the Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong
>>>> voltages
>>>> and even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).
>>>>
>>>> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor
>>>> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to
>>>> Intel xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to
>>>> work).
>>>>
>>>> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my
>>>> original
>>>> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for
>>>> that
>>>> version (or close to it).
>>>>
>>>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to
>>>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the
>>>> computer
>>>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
>>>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.
>>>>
>>>> So my question is:
>>>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that
>>>> extra
>>>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a
>>>> slightly
>>>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap
>>>> microprocessor and BIOS updates.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard
>>>> drive
>>>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which
>>>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a
>>>> possible problem?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...
>>
>> Yup, that's it.
>>
>>> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself
>>> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.
>>>
>>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too
>>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.
>>
>> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS
>> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host
>> Controller,
>> as follows:
>>
>> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),
>> and it added a:
>> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),
>> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.
>> Does
>> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an
>> additional
>> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place
>> of
>> the older one (type 2442)
>>
>> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB
>> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,
>> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand
>> what's going on there, though).
>>
>
> Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.
> If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be
> uninstalled
> (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt
> anything)
> Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.
> If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will be
> prompted for them.
>
> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be reinstalled
> with no prompting.
> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll just
> see a warning in "device manager"

OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the MB
arrives.

philo
Wed Apr 23 12:14:17 PDT 2008


<snip>
> >>>>
> >>>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor
to
> >>>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the
> >>>> computer
> >>>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or
> >>>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.
> >>>>
> >>>> So my question is:
> >>>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that
> >>>> extra
> >>>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a
> >>>> slightly
> >>>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap
> >>>> microprocessor and BIOS updates.
> >>>>
> >>>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the
hard
> >>>> drive
> >>>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and
which
> >>>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a
> >>>> possible problem?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is
win98...
> >>
> >> Yup, that's it.
> >>
> >>> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure
itself
> >>> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.
> >>>
> >>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not
too
> >>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.
> >>
> >> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer
BIOS
> >> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host
> >> Controller,
> >> as follows:
> >>
> >> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller
(-2442),
> >> and it added a:
> >> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),
> >> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.
> >> Does
> >> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an
> >> additional
> >> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in
place
> >> of
> >> the older one (type 2442)
> >>
> >> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second
USB
> >> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there
anymore,
> >> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't
understand
> >> what's going on there, though).
> >>
> >
> > Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.
> > If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be
> > uninstalled
> > (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt
> > anything)
> > Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.
> > If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will
be
> > prompted for them.
> >
> > Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be
reinstalled
> > with no prompting.
> > Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll
just
> > see a warning in "device manager"
>
> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the MB
> arrives.
>
>

It should boot rig