Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?

The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.

BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
(Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)

BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.

It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.

I have done a little testing at various settings.

At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
stand it, but close.

At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
doesn't feel quire as hot.

At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
10 minutes.

At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.

At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
to the touch.

At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.

At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.

At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.

Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
processor?

Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
thermometer.

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Paul

Paul
Thu Mar 20 00:26:26 PDT 2008

Lurfys Maw wrote:
> Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
> long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>
> The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
> mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>
> BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
> software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
> (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
> the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
> cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>
> BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
> PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
> the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>
> It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
> stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
> fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
> seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>
> I have done a little testing at various settings.
>
> At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
> of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
> stand it, but close.
>
> At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
> doesn't feel quire as hot.
>
> At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
> for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
> 10 minutes.
>
> At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>
> At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
> to the touch.
>
> At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>
> At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>
> At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>
> Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
> the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
> processor?
>
> Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
> what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
> thermometer.

In theory, a laptop is capable of running at 100%, for extended
periods of time. But in terms of maintenance costs, if you do your
BOINCing with a desktop, it'll be a lot cheaper to repair if something
breaks. Unless you're skilled in laptop repair, even the simplest
laptop problem could cost you $200+, as that is the going rate
for a laptop diagnosis these days. If you're capable of disassembling the
laptop, replacing fans or hard drives and the like, then go right
ahead, and use the laptop. But if you're poor like me, then use a
desktop machine that anybody can repair. If a fan fails on your desktop,
you're only out $20 (for a good one) and a few minutes work to replace it.

I did read an account, of someone the other day, who left their laptop
running for some number of days. When they got back to it, one corner
got so hot, that a plastic mount melted, and one screw would no longer
hold in place properly. So not every laptop is well designed, for that
kind of usage.

Paul

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Mark

Mark
Thu Mar 20 00:55:00 PDT 2008

"Lurfys Maw" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message =
news:19s3u3djc2a88vfvjikd3jikkc8fm8ombi@4ax.com...
> Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
> long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>=20
> The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
> mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>=20
> BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
> software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
> (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
> the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
> cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>=20
> BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
> PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
> the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>=20
> It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
> stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
> fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
> seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>=20
> I have done a little testing at various settings.
>=20
> At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
> of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
> stand it, but close.
>=20
> At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
> doesn't feel quire as hot.
>=20
> At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
> for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
> 10 minutes.
>=20
> At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>=20
> At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
> to the touch.
>=20
> At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>=20
> At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>=20
> At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>=20
> Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
> the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
> processor?
>=20
> Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
> what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
> thermometer.

I have run BOINC on a laptop for weeks on end with no issue.
Well it costs money and wears out faster but that is to be expected.

Regards
Mark Dormer

How to do a good posting
http://www.dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 06:17:54 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:26:26 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>Lurfys Maw wrote:
>> Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
>> long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>>
>> The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
>> mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>>
>> BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
>> software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
>> (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
>> the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
>> cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>>
>> BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
>> PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
>> the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>>
>> It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
>> stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
>> fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
>> seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>>
>> I have done a little testing at various settings.
>>
>> At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
>> of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
>> stand it, but close.
>>
>> At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
>> doesn't feel quire as hot.
>>
>> At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
>> for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
>> 10 minutes.
>>
>> At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>>
>> At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
>> to the touch.
>>
>> At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>>
>> At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>>
>> At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>>
>> Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
>> the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
>> processor?
>>
>> Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
>> what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
>> thermometer.
>
>In theory, a laptop is capable of running at 100%, for extended
>periods of time.

Are you saying that laptops are designed for more continuous use than
desktops? I would think that desktops ar much more likely to be left
on 24/7 than laptops, which tend to be shut down (or hibernated) and
stuffed in briefcases and suitcases.

>But in terms of maintenance costs, if you do your
>BOINCing with a desktop, it'll be a lot cheaper to repair if something
>breaks. Unless you're skilled in laptop repair, even the simplest
>laptop problem could cost you $200+, as that is the going rate
>for a laptop diagnosis these days. If you're capable of disassembling the
>laptop, replacing fans or hard drives and the like, then go right
>ahead, and use the laptop. But if you're poor like me, then use a
>desktop machine that anybody can repair. If a fan fails on your desktop,
>you're only out $20 (for a good one) and a few minutes work to replace it.

I'm not concerned about repairs. It's an old laptop. When it fails, it
will be recycled. I'm trying to determine what BOINC CPU usage level I
should use so I don't over-stress the CPU.

>I did read an account, of someone the other day, who left their laptop
>running for some number of days. When they got back to it, one corner
>got so hot, that a plastic mount melted, and one screw would no longer
>hold in place properly. So not every laptop is well designed, for that
>kind of usage.

Well, I would like to avoid that.

This laptop is perched on one of those CoolPad stands so there is
plenty of air circulation all around it and underneath.

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 07:44:53 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:55:00 +1100, "Mark Dormer" <markd@mvpsx.org>
wrote:

>"Lurfys Maw" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:19s3u3djc2a88vfvjikd3jikkc8fm8ombi@4ax.com...
>> Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
>> long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>>
>> The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
>> mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>>
>> BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
>> software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
>> (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
>> the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
>> cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>>
>> BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
>> PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
>> the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>>
>> It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
>> stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
>> fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
>> seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>>
>> I have done a little testing at various settings.
>>
>> At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
>> of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
>> stand it, but close.
>>
>> At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
>> doesn't feel quire as hot.
>>
>> At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
>> for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
>> 10 minutes.
>>
>> At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>>
>> At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
>> to the touch.
>>
>> At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>>
>> At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>>
>> At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>>
>> Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
>> the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
>> processor?
>>
>> Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
>> what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
>> thermometer.
>
>I have run BOINC on a laptop for weeks on end with no issue.
>Well it costs money and wears out faster but that is to be expected.

I realize that any use of the laptop incurs wear. What I am trying to
determine is whether any of the higher BOINC usage settings will incur
excessive wear or premature failure -- significantly beyond normal
usage.

I believe heat is one of the primary, if not the primary, CPU killers.
That's why I posted the fan percentages. When the fan is running, the
CPU is over the threshhold the manufacturer thought was safe. The fan
is there to bring it back down to a safe level. Right?

My intuition tells me that if the fan comes on briefly, the machine is
operating within safe levels. I would think that using the 30% setting
or less should cause little more than normal wear on the machine. Is
that a safe assumption?

At the other end of the spectrum, the 90-100% settings may be causing
considerably more than normal wear. If the fan is running
continuously, the CPU is never below the manufacturer's threshold and,
since it never shuts off, we cannot be sure how much over the
threshold it is. How likely is it that these settings are causing much
more than normal wear?

My working hypothesis is that given the measurements above, the 10-50%
settings should not cause excessive (more than normal) wear. The
80-100% settings probably are causing excessive wear. But what about
the 60-70% settings?



Talking about "wear" is probably misleading. Since the CPU has no
moving parts to "wear out", executing instructions may not inherently
cause "wear". Heat is probably the dominant, if not the only
consideration.

The fan never comes on with either 10% or the 20% setting. The CPU is
probably warmer at the 20% setting than at the 10% setting, but does
not reach the fan threshold. It is working twice as hard. If it were a
gear, it would wear out twice as fast. My hunch is that CPUs running
at the 20% setting would not, on average, fail anything like twice as
quickly as those running at the 10% setting.

I would like to see a graph showing life expectancy as a function of
operating temperature. Does life expectancy decrease linearly with
rising temperature or it there a threshold at which life expectancy
drops steeply.

My intuition tells me that as operating temperature increases, life
expectancy decreases more slowly at lower temperatures than at higher
temperatures. A graph with life expectancy on the vertical in hours
and CPU temperature on the horizontal in degrees would be some type of
concave down curve with a slope that is slightly negative at low
temperatures and becomes more and more steeply negative with higher
temperatures. I also might expect a discontinuity at or just above the
fan threshold where life expectancy drop much more steeply as
components start to melt.

A quick search turned up this link:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips30/

About 5-6 screens down, there is a formula

CPU Life = Normal Life Hours / [((273 + New Temp) / (273 + Normal
Temp)) ^ M]

and a graph. The graph plots life expectancy vs temperature for three
CPUs: a "hardy" CPU, an "average" CPU, and a "weak" CPU.

Surprisingly (to me), the curve is concave up. This says that
increasing the CPU temp from 25C to 30C (77F-86F) reduces life
expectancy more than increasing it from 70C to 80C (158F-167F).

It looks like an exponential decay function, which would say that life
expectancy has some lower limit, which is nonsense. Once the CPU
melts, life expectancy is zero.

If I read the graph correctly, increasing the CPU temp from 25C (77F)
to 30C (86F) decreasing lfe expectancy from 30K to 27.5K for the hardy
CPU and 23K for the weak CPU. But increasing the temp from 70C (158F)
to 75C (167F) only decreases the life expectancy from 15K to 14K for
the hardy CPU and from 2K to 1.5K for the weak CPU.

My guess is that this graph is theoretical rather than empirical. I
would wager than emperical data would be very different.


Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Robert

Robert
Thu Mar 20 08:17:56 PDT 2008

I would be more woried about the hard drive in the laptop if you are running
the cpu hard. All that heat affects other components too because of the lack
of airflow. I have seen several laptop drives fail but never the cpu.
HTH
Robert

"Lurfys Maw" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:19s3u3djc2a88vfvjikd3jikkc8fm8ombi@4ax.com...
> Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
> long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>
> The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
> mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>
> BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
> software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
> (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
> the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
> cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>
> BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
> PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
> the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>
> It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
> stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
> fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
> seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>
> I have done a little testing at various settings.
>
> At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
> of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
> stand it, but close.
>
> At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
> doesn't feel quire as hot.
>
> At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
> for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
> 10 minutes.
>
> At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>
> At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
> to the touch.
>
> At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>
> At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>
> At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>
> Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
> the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
> processor?
>
> Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
> what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
> thermometer.


Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 09:44:59 PDT 2008

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:17:56 +1000, "Robert McMillan"
<robmc87@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>I would be more woried about the hard drive in the laptop if you are running
>the cpu hard. All that heat affects other components too because of the lack
>of airflow. I have seen several laptop drives fail but never the cpu.

Are the drives failing because of heat generally (such as generated by
the CPU, but not dissipated well) or because of disk activity?

BOINC causes very little disk activity.

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by archmage

archmage
Thu Mar 20 13:25:49 PDT 2008

In comp.sys.intel Lurfys Maw <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I believe heat is one of the primary, if not the primary, CPU killers.
> That's why I posted the fan percentages. When the fan is running, the
> CPU is over the threshhold the manufacturer thought was safe. The fan
> is there to bring it back down to a safe level. Right?

Only sort of right. Modern systems - both laptop and desktops - are
designed to require active cooling. As long as the fan is operating
properly and airflow isn't obstructed, the CPU will stay in a safe
temperature range.

Modern CPUs (Athlon 64, Pentium 4, or newer) are designed to throttle or
shut down if they get above a certain temperature, well before any heat
related damage can occur.

> At the other end of the spectrum, the 90-100% settings may be causing
> considerably more than normal wear. If the fan is running
> continuously, the CPU is never below the manufacturer's threshold and,
> since it never shuts off, we cannot be sure how much over the
> threshold it is. How likely is it that these settings are causing much
> more than normal wear?

That is incorrect. The only damage likely to occur in a properly designed
system with the CPU opertating continuously at 100% is to the fan itself,
rather than to the CPU.

> I would like to see a graph showing life expectancy as a function of
> operating temperature. Does life expectancy decrease linearly with
> rising temperature or it there a threshold at which life expectancy
> drops steeply.

In general, the latter is true, but modern CPUs will shut themselves down
before reaching the temperature where heat will cause either immediate
damage or failure.

In practice, CPUs very rarely fail - power supplies, fans, hard drives and
(especially in laptops) motherboards all fail at rates so much higher than
CPU itself that you can treat the long-term uncorrelated failure probability
for any one system as negligible.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It is obscenity.
posting domain | I'm for it." - prologue to "Smut" by Tom Lehrer

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 16:07:53 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:25:49 -0700, archmage@sfchat.org (Nate Edel)
wrote:

>In comp.sys.intel Lurfys Maw <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I believe heat is one of the primary, if not the primary, CPU killers.
>> That's why I posted the fan percentages. When the fan is running, the
>> CPU is over the threshhold the manufacturer thought was safe. The fan
>> is there to bring it back down to a safe level. Right?
>
>Only sort of right. Modern systems - both laptop and desktops - are
>designed to require active cooling. As long as the fan is operating
>properly and airflow isn't obstructed, the CPU will stay in a safe
>temperature range.
>
>Modern CPUs (Athlon 64, Pentium 4, or newer) are designed to throttle or
>shut down if they get above a certain temperature, well before any heat
>related damage can occur.
>
>> At the other end of the spectrum, the 90-100% settings may be causing
>> considerably more than normal wear. If the fan is running
>> continuously, the CPU is never below the manufacturer's threshold and,
>> since it never shuts off, we cannot be sure how much over the
>> threshold it is. How likely is it that these settings are causing much
>> more than normal wear?
>
>That is incorrect. The only damage likely to occur in a properly designed
>system with the CPU opertating continuously at 100% is to the fan itself,
>rather than to the CPU.
>
>> I would like to see a graph showing life expectancy as a function of
>> operating temperature. Does life expectancy decrease linearly with
>> rising temperature or it there a threshold at which life expectancy
>> drops steeply.
>
>In general, the latter is true, but modern CPUs will shut themselves down
>before reaching the temperature where heat will cause either immediate
>damage or failure.
>
>In practice, CPUs very rarely fail - power supplies, fans, hard drives and
>(especially in laptops) motherboards all fail at rates so much higher than
>CPU itself that you can treat the long-term uncorrelated failure probability
>for any one system as negligible.

Great information, thanks.

A couple of questions:

1. It sounds like I can run it as hard as it will go without much risk
to the CPU. Other components may be harmed.

2. Can the heat generated by running the CPU full tilt cause damage to
the other components? Will running the CPU at a lower percentage so
that the fan is not running continuously significnatly lower that risk
to the other compponents or does it not matter that much?

3. What will happen if the fan fails -- especially if it happens when
I am not around to notice? Will the CPU shut the system down and
protect the other components? The laptop is running Win2K.

4. Is the fan designed for continuous or intermittent use? That is, is
it less wearing on the fan to run continuously or intermittently?

Thanks

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by PaulMaudib

PaulMaudib
Thu Mar 20 16:48:11 PDT 2008

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:35:35 -0700, Lurfys Maw
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Are there any guidelines about how hard a CPU can be run and for how
>long and/or how to tell if a CPU is overheating?
>
>The other day, I downloaded BOINC to run on an old laptop that I
>mostly use for testing shareware. It's an HP Omnibook 6000.
>
>BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is the
>software that allows various compute-intensive projects such as SETI
>(Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) to ships small pieces of
>the computations out to PCs around the world to sop up their idle
>cycles. (Probably everyone already knew that.)
>
>BOINC allows me to set various parameters that control how much of my
>PCs resources it will use. One parameter controls the percentage of
>the processor. I can set it from 10% to 100% in 10% increments.
>
>It looks like BOINC achieves the throttling back by starting and
>stopping the calculations. The Task Manager Performence graph is kinda
>fun to watch. Each little grid on the graph appears to be about 5
>seconds wide. BOINC completes about two cycles each grid.
>
>I have done a little testing at various settings.
>
>At 100%, the fan comes on tight away and runs continuously. The bottom
>of the laptop gets fairly hot to the touch -- not so hot that I can't
>stand it, but close.
>
>At 90% & 80%, the fan comes on and runs continuously, but the laptop
>doesn't feel quire as hot.
>
>At 70%, the fan is on almost all the time. It occasionally shuts off
>for a few seconds. I just tested it and it did not shut off at all for
>10 minutes.
>
>At 60%, the fan is on about 90% of the time.
>
>At 50%, the fan is on about 65% of the time and the laptop is cooler
>to the touch.
>
>At 40%, the fan is on about 30% of the time.
>
>At 30%, the fan comes on occasionally for a few seconds.
>
>At 20% and 10%, the fan never comes on.
>
>Is it safe to run BOINC continuously (24/7) at 100%? If not, what is
>the highest level that can I run it continuously without damaging the
>processor?
>
>Would it be better to measure the actual processor temperature? If so,
>what is the best way to do that? My hand is not a reliable
>thermometer.

What does this have to do with XP? NOTHING. BOINC runs on multiple
platforms. It is heavily dependent on your HARDWARE and how you have
it set to utilize your processor - but NONE of that have anything to
do with the XP OS.

Ask elsewhere.


Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Paul

Paul
Thu Mar 20 17:47:19 PDT 2008

Lurfys Maw wrote:

>
> Are you saying that laptops are designed for more continuous use than
> desktops? I would think that desktops ar much more likely to be left
> on 24/7 than laptops, which tend to be shut down (or hibernated) and
> stuffed in briefcases and suitcases.
>

I'm saying the cooling system is designed to accept the heat level that
comes from 100% CPU. It would be pointless to design a box, that
drives the processor temperature high enough to cause throttling
by the CPU, as a response. So the cooling system is designed to
handle it.

But that is the theory. There are always examples out there, of
designs that pushed things a little too far. The laptop with the
melted plastic is an example, of something you would not expect
to see in a design.

I worked on a machine, that is similar in design concept to a
laptop, but has the motherboard behind the LCD panel. That thing
had a Northbridge with maybe a 12W power dissipation rating. There
was no fan on it, and very little ventilation. The Northbridge had
a little heatsink on it.

As an experiment, I fitted the heatsink with a digital thermometer
probe. I fired up the machine, and stopped the test when the little
heatsink on the Northbridge hit 70C (it would have gone farther, but
I stopped the test). The chip itself was rated at 99C, and
my temp probe was on the fins of the heatsink (which is cooler
than the silicon die would be). It was obvious to me, from that
test, that the resting temperature of that thing was set too high.
I fitted a fan to the heatsink, and got an instant drop on the fins,
to 37C. So whoever designed that machine, didn't intend for it
to last ten years, with such a design concept. I suspect laptops
are designed in a similar way, pushing components right to
the limits. I'd never let my desktop systems get that hot,
and they have more room to breathe in any case.

Paul

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 18:13:18 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:47:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>Lurfys Maw wrote:
>
>>
>> Are you saying that laptops are designed for more continuous use than
>> desktops? I would think that desktops ar much more likely to be left
>> on 24/7 than laptops, which tend to be shut down (or hibernated) and
>> stuffed in briefcases and suitcases.
>>
>
>I'm saying the cooling system is designed to accept the heat level that
>comes from 100% CPU. It would be pointless to design a box, that
>drives the processor temperature high enough to cause throttling
>by the CPU, as a response. So the cooling system is designed to
>handle it.

That makes sense. The user has little control over how much processor
is getting used. It's not like a car where the user is actively
stepping on the accelerator.

>But that is the theory. There are always examples out there, of
>designs that pushed things a little too far. The laptop with the
>melted plastic is an example, of something you would not expect
>to see in a design.

This is an HP laptop and not one of the cheapest, so I would think
that it is more toward the well-designed end of the spectrum.

>I worked on a machine, that is similar in design concept to a
>laptop, but has the motherboard behind the LCD panel. That thing
>had a Northbridge with maybe a 12W power dissipation rating. There
>was no fan on it, and very little ventilation. The Northbridge had
>a little heatsink on it.
>
>As an experiment, I fitted the heatsink with a digital thermometer
>probe. I fired up the machine, and stopped the test when the little
>heatsink on the Northbridge hit 70C (it would have gone farther, but
>I stopped the test). The chip itself was rated at 99C, and
>my temp probe was on the fins of the heatsink (which is cooler
>than the silicon die would be). It was obvious to me, from that
>test, that the resting temperature of that thing was set too high.
>I fitted a fan to the heatsink, and got an instant drop on the fins,
>to 37C. So whoever designed that machine, didn't intend for it
>to last ten years, with such a design concept. I suspect laptops
>are designed in a similar way, pushing components right to
>the limits. I'd never let my desktop systems get that hot,
>and they have more room to breathe in any case.

How difficult would it be for me to get a temperature reading myself?
I don't suppose sticking a temperature probe into the fan exhaust
would be worth much.

Just curious...

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Paul

Paul
Thu Mar 20 18:37:34 PDT 2008

Lurfys Maw wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:47:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>> Lurfys Maw wrote:
>>
>>> Are you saying that laptops are designed for more continuous use than
>>> desktops? I would think that desktops ar much more likely to be left
>>> on 24/7 than laptops, which tend to be shut down (or hibernated) and
>>> stuffed in briefcases and suitcases.
>>>
>> I'm saying the cooling system is designed to accept the heat level that
>> comes from 100% CPU. It would be pointless to design a box, that
>> drives the processor temperature high enough to cause throttling
>> by the CPU, as a response. So the cooling system is designed to
>> handle it.
>
> That makes sense. The user has little control over how much processor
> is getting used. It's not like a car where the user is actively
> stepping on the accelerator.
>
>> But that is the theory. There are always examples out there, of
>> designs that pushed things a little too far. The laptop with the
>> melted plastic is an example, of something you would not expect
>> to see in a design.
>
> This is an HP laptop and not one of the cheapest, so I would think
> that it is more toward the well-designed end of the spectrum.
>
>> I worked on a machine, that is similar in design concept to a
>> laptop, but has the motherboard behind the LCD panel. That thing
>> had a Northbridge with maybe a 12W power dissipation rating. There
>> was no fan on it, and very little ventilation. The Northbridge had
>> a little heatsink on it.
>>
>> As an experiment, I fitted the heatsink with a digital thermometer
>> probe. I fired up the machine, and stopped the test when the little
>> heatsink on the Northbridge hit 70C (it would have gone farther, but
>> I stopped the test). The chip itself was rated at 99C, and
>> my temp probe was on the fins of the heatsink (which is cooler
>> than the silicon die would be). It was obvious to me, from that
>> test, that the resting temperature of that thing was set too high.
>> I fitted a fan to the heatsink, and got an instant drop on the fins,
>> to 37C. So whoever designed that machine, didn't intend for it
>> to last ten years, with such a design concept. I suspect laptops
>> are designed in a similar way, pushing components right to
>> the limits. I'd never let my desktop systems get that hot,
>> and they have more room to breathe in any case.
>
> How difficult would it be for me to get a temperature reading myself?
> I don't suppose sticking a temperature probe into the fan exhaust
> would be worth much.
>
> Just curious...

The exhaust would not be the hottest part of the laptop. Getting a
silicon die temperature, would be representative of what a particular
chip was experiencing. It is relatively easy to fit a chip design
with a thermal diode, but you do need to connect it to the hardware
monitor, to get a reading.

A typical hardware monitor, as part of a SuperI/O chip, might have
three channels for thermal measurements. On my current computer,
CPU is one channel, "motherboard temp" is via a thermistor on the
motherboard, and I added a thermistor that sticks out the front of
the computer, and it measures room temp. That is what I use to monitor
how well my current computer is working. The "added thermistor" is
via a special two pin header on the motherboard. They don't provide
those any more, as far as I know.

It seems some chipsets have a thermal diode inside them, and on
some recent desktops, that seems to be connected to one of
the measurement channels. I don't know what the practice is in
that regard, on laptops.

There are digital thermometers you can get (I have a Lian Li
branded one, with two channels). But the trick is, getting the
sensor placed somewhere useful, to get a reading. In my
experiment, I used the fins of the heatsink, guesstimating
that the silicon die would be 20-30C hotter than the fin
temperature. But that would be purely a guess. The further
you get from the source of the heat, the less meaningful the
measurement.

Paul

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 18:37:43 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:46:13 -0500, PaulMaudib <none@none.net> wrote:

>What does this have to do with XP? NOTHING.

You answered your own question. Do you still want me to answer?

>BOINC runs on multiple platforms.

And one of them is XP, no?

Is this ng for programs that only run on WinXP? If a program also runs
on, say Win2K or Vista, then notjing can be said about it here?
Wouldn't it make sense to change the name to something like
microsoft.public.windowsxp-only.hardware?

>It is heavily dependent on your HARDWARE

What does the word "hardware" in the ng title mean?

>and how you have it set to utilize your processor

Huh? I don't know how to run a program without utilizing the
processor...do you?

>but NONE of that have

[sic] *has* ;-) One nit-pocker to another

>anything to do with the XP OS.

I guess you are right. I have made a terrible mistake. Whatever will I
do? Let's see, since, as you point out, BOINC runs on multiple
platforms, maybe I should repost this entire thread on all related
platform ngs? Should I cross-post or multipost? I am so confused. I
really need your help here.

>Ask elsewhere.

Where?

BTW: I didn't ask *you*, specifically, I asked the group.

Re: How hard to run BOINC? by Lurfys

Lurfys
Thu Mar 20 18:43:15 PDT 2008

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:37:34 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>Lurfys Maw wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:47:19 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lurfys Maw wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you saying that laptops are designed for more continuous use than
>>>> desktops? I would think that desktops ar much more likely to be left
>>>> on 24/7 than laptops, which tend to be shut down (or hibernated) and
>>>> stuffed in briefcases and suitcases.
>>>>
>>> I'm saying the cooling system is designed to accept the heat level that
>>> comes from 100% CPU. It would be pointless to design a box, that
>>> drives the processor temperature high enough to cause throttling
>>> by the CPU, as a response. So the cooling system is designed to
>>> handle it.
>>
>> That makes sense. The user has little control over how much processor
>> is getting used. It's not like a car where the user is actively
>> stepping on the accelerator.
>>
>>> But that is the theory. There are always examples out there, of
>>> designs that pushed things a little too far. The laptop with the
>>> melted plastic is an example, of something you would not expect
>>> to see in a design.
>>
>> This is an HP laptop and not one of the cheapest, so I would think
>> that it is more toward the well-designed end of the spectrum.
>>
>>> I worked on a machine, that is similar in design concept to a
>>> laptop, but has the motherboard behind the LCD panel. That thing
>>> had a Northbridge with maybe a 12W power dissipation rating. There
>>> was no fan on it, and very little ventilation. The Northbridge had
>>> a little heatsink on it.
>>>
>>> As an experiment, I fitted the heatsink with a digital thermometer
>>> probe. I fired up the machine, and stopped the test when the little
>>> heatsink on the Northbridge hit 70C (it would have gone farther, but
>>> I stopped the test). The chip itself was rated at 99C, and
>>> my temp probe was on the fins of the heatsink (which is cooler
>>> than the silicon die would be). It was obvious to me, from that
>>> test, that the resting temperature of that thing was set too high.
>>> I fitted a fan to the heatsink, and got an instant drop on the fins,
>>> to 37C. So whoever designed that machine, didn't intend for it
>>> to last ten years, with such a design concept. I suspect laptops
>>> are designed in a similar way, pushing components right to
>>> the limits. I'd never let my desktop systems get that hot,
>>> and they have more room to breathe in any case.
>>
>> How difficult would it be for me to get a temperature reading myself?
>> I don't suppose sticking a temperature probe into the fan exhaust
>> would be worth much.
>>
>> Just curious...
>
>The exhaust would not be the hottest part of the laptop. Getting a
>silicon die temperature, would be representative of what a particular
>chip was experiencing. It is relatively easy to fit a chip design
>with a thermal diode, but you do need to connect it to the hardware
>monitor, to get a reading.
>
>A typical hardware monitor, as part of a SuperI/O chip, might have
>three channels for thermal measurements. On my current computer,
>CPU is one channel, "motherboard temp" is via a thermistor on the
>motherboard, and I added a thermistor that sticks out the front of
>the computer, and it measures room temp. That is what I use to monitor
>how well my current computer is working. The "added thermistor" is
>via a special two pin header on the motherboard. They don't provide
>those any more, as far as I know.
>
>It seems some chipsets have a thermal diode inside them, and on
>some recent desktops, that seems to be connected to one of
>the measurement channels. I don't know what the practice is in
>that regard, on laptops.
>
>There are digital thermometers you can get (I have a Lian Li
>branded one, with two channels). But the trick is, getting the
>sensor placed somewhere useful, to get a reading. In my
>experiment, I used the fins of the heatsink, guesstimating
>th