Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
(guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.

After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
green/orange)

On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
Charge %age always remains at zero.

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Debug steps so far:

1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.

2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
some custom-version.

3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
"expensive doorstop"

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
ago!

--
Rahul

PD43
Mon Apr 07 20:45:08 PDT 2008

Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
>Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
>expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
discussing Windows XP operating system issues.

You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
people you bought the battery from?

Rahul
Mon Apr 07 20:57:45 PDT 2008

PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gfqlv3p7l88n2v9kbdnca05pakl2hdj0u9@4ax.com:

> Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
> discussing Windows XP operating system issues.
>
> You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
> people you bought the battery from?
>

Sorry PD43; it wasn't my intention to mis-post or hijack the group. For
me it seemed like a relevant technical issue: "How does WinXP
communicate with the battery?" It's almost akin to removing
Dell-installed-malware. Its my laptop now that I bought it from Dell and
how can I remove all pieces of Dell junk-software (that I suspect caused
this) from it and just leave a "clean" WinXP install? Or if there are
"industry battery standards" etc.? Its easy to specify parameters for
RAM modules, PCI cards, USB ports etc.; does similar compatibility-data
exist for battery specs?

Again, I'm sorry if I misjudged the group-subject area. (Kahlon has been
nice enough to accept the battery back but I just had a technical
curiosity to figure out how this whole mess works!)

--
Rahul

Bill
Mon Apr 07 21:02:14 PDT 2008

PD43 wrote:
> Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
>> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
>> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
> discussing Windows XP operating system issues.
>
> You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
> people you bought the battery from?

There actually is a very active and extensive Dell user support forum at
their web site. He should check that out.

Bill
Mon Apr 07 21:04:07 PDT 2008

Check out my reply to PD43.

Rahul wrote:
> PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:gfqlv3p7l88n2v9kbdnca05pakl2hdj0u9@4ax.com:
>
>> Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
>> discussing Windows XP operating system issues.
>>
>> You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
>> people you bought the battery from?
>>
>
> Sorry PD43; it wasn't my intention to mis-post or hijack the group. For
> me it seemed like a relevant technical issue: "How does WinXP
> communicate with the battery?" It's almost akin to removing
> Dell-installed-malware. Its my laptop now that I bought it from Dell and
> how can I remove all pieces of Dell junk-software (that I suspect caused
> this) from it and just leave a "clean" WinXP install? Or if there are
> "industry battery standards" etc.? Its easy to specify parameters for
> RAM modules, PCI cards, USB ports etc.; does similar compatibility-data
> exist for battery specs?
>
> Again, I'm sorry if I misjudged the group-subject area. (Kahlon has been
> nice enough to accept the battery back but I just had a technical
> curiosity to figure out how this whole mess works!)
>
> --
> Rahul

Richard
Mon Apr 07 21:15:50 PDT 2008

Sounds like your problem is with Kahlon and their guarantee.

"Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9A79E63B24C24nospamnospamcom@207.46.248.16...
> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!
>
> --
> Rahul

Lem
Mon Apr 07 21:29:37 PDT 2008

Rahul wrote:
> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!
>

Given that the replacement battery you bought was "guaranteed to be
E1505 compatible" but doesn't seem to work on your E1505, perhaps you
ought to get in touch with Kahlon support.

--
Lem -- MS-MVP

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm

Shenan
Mon Apr 07 22:52:04 PDT 2008

Rahul wrote:
> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505
> was almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell
> battery was around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery
> from Kahlon (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up
> and issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will
> not be able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and
> continue. I kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get
> the battery its recommended initial charge. Subsequently I
> disconnected AC power and proceeded to work on the battery till it
> drained fully (about 4 hours). Laptop worked fine. (all the while
> the battery charging LED blinks green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the
> power bar gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs,
> manufacturer etc. Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but
> some Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than
> their expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong
> suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning.
> Will work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery
> recognizes all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this
> model. Its only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest
> I end up with an "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not
> want to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost
> $700 2 years ago!

Unfortunately - two points...

1) This is a Windows XP group and your problem is not only obviously not a
Windows issue - but even you pointed that out in several ways.

2) This means it is a hardware issue - one which you would need to discuss
with the manufacturer. It costs nothing to post on Dell's web forums - you
might try there.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

PA
Mon Apr 07 22:53:27 PDT 2008

Sometimes you get what you pay for. Return the battery to Kahlon for credit
(since it's guaranteed) then buy a new or reconditioned battery from Dell
instead.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Rahul wrote:
> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 00:15:56 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 12:53 am, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes you get what you pay for. Return the battery to Kahlon for credit
> (since it's guaranteed) then buy a new or reconditioned battery from Dell
> instead.

Thank Robear! I think I'll return it to Kahlon. On second thoughts
though, its Dell who's the bad guy here not Kahlon. I might just fight
it out. Screw my depreciated 700$! I'm installing Linux AND doing a
BIOS upgrade. Let's see what I get. Either I end up with an expensive
doorstop or I defeat Dell's monopolistic scheming!

--
Rahul

PD43
Tue Apr 08 00:16:45 PDT 2008

On Apr 7, 10:37=A0pm, Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. You might try
asking the people you bought the battery from.

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 00:20:27 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 12:52 am, "Shenan Stanley" <newshel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately - two points...
>
> 1) This is a Windows XP group and your problem is not only obviously not a
> Windows issue - but even you pointed that out in several ways

Thanks Stanley! I see your point. Its probably a crooked BIOS! I
should only post to a HWare group or a BIOS group.

> 2) This means it is a hardware issue - one which you would need to discuss
> with the manufacturer. It costs nothing to post on Dell's web forums - you
> might try there.

I'll try the Dell forums too. Its just that I don't expect too much
help from Dell since this might be counterproductive to their
intentions (assuming my suspicion was well-founded!)

--
Rahul

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 00:25:42 PDT 2008

On Apr 7, 11:29 pm, Lem <lem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Given that the replacement battery you bought was "guaranteed to be
> E1505 compatible" but doesn't seem to work on your E1505, perhaps you
> ought to get in touch with Kahlon support.
>
> --
> Lem -- MS-MVP


Thanks Lem! I guess I'll return it to Kahlon. I just think its unfair
to Kahlon though. I strongly feel its Dell who's introducing
artificial obstacles. What if I added Samsung RAM, or a Segate HDD
the BIOS would complain. Like I replied to another post: I just might
burn away my depreciated 700$ and hack away with Linux and a flashed
BIOS to make a point! (of course, assuming there's a way out! :-) )
The whole PC industry is based on fungible parts and I hate to believe
Dell deserves an exception!

--
Rahul

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 00:28:53 PDT 2008

On Apr 7, 11:02 pm, "Bill in Co." <not_really_h...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> PD43 wrote:
> > Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> >> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> >> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> > Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
> > discussing Windows XP operating system issues.
>
> > You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
> > people you bought the battery from?
>
> There actually is a very active and extensive Dell user support forum at
> their web site. He should check that out.

Thanks Bill! I'll repost there.

--
Rahul

John
Tue Apr 08 00:52:11 PDT 2008

You could try the following NG for help:

alt.sys.pc-clone.dell

John.

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 01:05:20 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 2:52 am, John <z...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> You could try the following NG for help:
>
> alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
>
> John.

Thanks John. I didn't know of that one!'ll repost there.

--
Rahul

Paul
Tue Apr 08 01:41:29 PDT 2008

Rahul wrote:
> On Apr 7, 11:29 pm, Lem <lem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Given that the replacement battery you bought was "guaranteed to be
>> E1505 compatible" but doesn't seem to work on your E1505, perhaps you
>> ought to get in touch with Kahlon support.
>>
>> --
>> Lem -- MS-MVP
>
>
> Thanks Lem! I guess I'll return it to Kahlon. I just think its unfair
> to Kahlon though. I strongly feel its Dell who's introducing
> artificial obstacles. What if I added Samsung RAM, or a Segate HDD
> the BIOS would complain. Like I replied to another post: I just might
> burn away my depreciated 700$ and hack away with Linux and a flashed
> BIOS to make a point! (of course, assuming there's a way out! :-) )
> The whole PC industry is based on fungible parts and I hate to believe
> Dell deserves an exception!
>
> --
> Rahul

I doubt I'll be able to find a complete picture of how it all works,
but perhaps these links will help.

"The smart battery"
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-17.htm

PDF page 14 here, has examples of info supplied by the battery,
to the computer. The Dell software could be barfing, based on
something it is reading. (It is not unheard of, for a knockoff
maker of a piece of hardware, to not know how to program
something.)

http://www2.altiris.com/docs/partners/WP_%20OMCI.pdf

A little info on fuel gauges for batteries.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3958

Ultimately, Kahlon made a guarantee of compatibility, which means
they've read articles like the ones above, and understand their
responsibilities. If they were completely clueless, then they
should test the battery they intend to sell, with the laptop
they intend to use it with. If they understand what all the pins
do, what data should be populated in an EEPROM or whatever, then
they should be able to figure out, based on your symptom description,
how they screwed up (sent wrong battery to you or whatever).

The original Dell battery worked with the laptop. Even if Dell is
slimy, for making the battery technology so "Smart", that should
not prevent an aftermarket manufacturer, from "copying exactly".
If they can make fake Nikes, they should be able to make a battery
that works for you.

What has happened to you, is one reason I'll never own a laptop.
Every time the laptop has a problem, someone has their hand out,
looking for $200.00 :-( Even to have someone "look" at a laptop,
and make a superficial diagnosis, costs $200. And now that a
battery factory burned just recently, there is no reason for
the price of batteries to come down. When I looked at the prices
on the Dell site, I was shocked.

Paul

eckrichco
Tue Apr 08 01:44:02 PDT 2008

Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.
Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
site
& get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

"Rahul" wrote:

> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
> ago!
>
> --
> Rahul
>

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 01:51:41 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 3:41 am, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> Rahul wrote:
>
> I doubt I'll be able to find a complete picture of how it all works,
> but perhaps these links will help.

Thanks Paul! You've probably provided me with the best set of links
on this issue so far!


> "The smart battery"http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-17.htm
>
> PDF page 14 here, has examples of info supplied by the battery,
> to the computer. The Dell software could be barfing, based on
> something it is reading. (It is not unheard of, for a knockoff
> maker of a piece of hardware, to not know how to program
> something.)

Absolutely. If only I could figure out how to disable the Dell
software! If it is a software check it can be defeated! I have no
qualms doing it.


> http://www2.altiris.com/docs/partners/WP_%20OMCI.pdf
>
> A little info on fuel gauges for batteries.
>
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3958
>
> Ultimately, Kahlon made a guarantee of compatibility, which means
> they've read articles like the ones above, and understand their
> responsibilities. If they were completely clueless, then they
> should test the battery they intend to sell, with the laptop
> they intend to use it with. If they understand what all the pins
> do, what data should be populated in an EEPROM or whatever, then
> they should be able to figure out, based on your symptom description,
> how they screwed up (sent wrong battery to you or whatever).
> The original Dell battery worked with the laptop. Even if Dell is
> slimy, for making the battery technology so "Smart", that should
> not prevent an aftermarket manufacturer, from "copying exactly".
> If they can make fake Nikes, they should be able to make a battery
> that works for you.

Very true. I guess Kahlon has the blame to share too. For incompetence
rather than pure malice and greed shown by Dell. I guess I have a
share of the blame too. For being a cheapskate. I could have shelled
out $200.


> What has happened to you, is one reason I'll never own a laptop.
> Every time the laptop has a problem, someone has their hand out,
> looking for $200.00 :-(

Why has this issue pervaded Laptops in particular I wonder!

Thanks again Paul!

--
Rahul

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 01:55:34 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.

Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
battery is bad.

> Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
> site
> & get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

If only I got a list of spcs. and a standard that went like: "Provided
(a) (b) and (c) hold; the battery will be compatible."

--
Rahul

windmap
Tue Apr 08 02:53:35 PDT 2008

Try this
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/DellPartsFamily.aspx?c=3Dus&l=3Den&s=3D=
gen

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:07:52 +0530, Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:=


> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 wa=
s
> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and=

> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I=

> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours)=
.
> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
> green/orange)
>
> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power b=
ar
> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but so=
me
> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.=

>
> Debug steps so far:
>
> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Wil=
l
> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognize=
s
> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
> some custom-version.
>
> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. =
Its
> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with =
an
> "expensive doorstop"
>
> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want=

> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 yea=
rs
> ago!
>

Doug
Tue Apr 08 02:53:25 PDT 2008

"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:be21928f-2fb4-41e2-a1c9-812808dc4ddb@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
| On Apr 8, 12:53 am, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABear...@gmail.com> wrote:
| > Sometimes you get what you pay for. Return the battery to Kahlon for
credit
| > (since it's guaranteed) then buy a new or reconditioned battery from
Dell
| > instead.
|
| Thank Robear! I think I'll return it to Kahlon. On second thoughts
| though, its Dell who's the bad guy here not Kahlon. I might just fight
| it out. Screw my depreciated 700$! I'm installing Linux AND doing a
| BIOS upgrade. Let's see what I get. Either I end up with an expensive
| doorstop or I defeat Dell's monopolistic scheming!
|
| --
| Rahul

You assume way too much. Your problem is entirely with the vendor who
supplied your battery.

As an owner of several Dells I can assure you that they will work with a
(properly constructed) battery from any vendor.

Your assertion that the "if I added Samsung RAM, or a Segate(sic) HDD the
BIOS would complain" is pure fantasy. I've upgraded all my Dells RAM and
harddrives with third party hardware from New Egg et. al....

There is nothing special or proprietary about Dell computers that forces you
to buy hardware from Dell. All your blathering about "Dell's monopolistic
scheming." is crap you made up in your head with zero basis in fact.

If you spent a little time in the Dell Newsgroup you would be aware that it
is common practice for people to buy baseline Dell systems on special and
upgrade them with less expensive stuff from third party vendors.

If you want to buy a battery that will work for less than the price Dell
charges try Pacific Battery.
http://www.pacificbattery.com/delle1505.html for your model. Their service
is good and they stand behind what they sell.

On the subject of assuming way too much. You said "I'll try the Dell forums
too. Its just that I don't expect too much
help from Dell since this might be counterproductive to their intentions."
Dell Forums are user to user forums and an excellent source of information.
They are moderated for TOS content but otherwise are not "run" by Dell.

BTW your problem certainty isn't operating system dependent, your computers
charging hardware doesn't know or care what OS is installed in your computer
or if in fact a harddrive is even present. A BIOS update that doesn't
specifically address the problem you're having won't do the trick either.

There is a very good reason for the computers charger to have to properly
identify the smart circuit inside the battery before it will be able to
charge it. LiON batteries improperly handled make very potent incendiary
devices. Your problem is entirely with the vendor who supplied your battery.

JohnO
Tue Apr 08 05:16:59 PDT 2008


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2c4f98-bb8f-4af4-83ae-8500311f50cb@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
>> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
>> one.
>
> Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
> that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
> effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
> battery is bad.
>

That advice is totally wrong regarding Li-Ion batteries...Li-Ion has no
memory. Draining them completely ONCE simply allows the charging circuits to
calibrate themselves to the capacity of the battery. Keep them charged!
(applies to cell phones, too)

Li-Ion is like lead-acid....they get their max life by staying near full
charge as much as possible. NiCad and NiMH are the ones with memory...and
they haven't been used in laptops for more than a decade.

-John O

M
Tue Apr 08 05:20:50 PDT 2008


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d2c4f98-bb8f-4af4-83ae-8500311f50cb@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 3:44 am, Andrew E. <eckric...@msn.com> wrote:
>> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
>> one.
>
> Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
> that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
> effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
> battery is bad.
>

Li-ion batteries do not suffer from any memory effect. It should not have
been possible to discharge the battery below its lower charge limit (in
practice every laptop puts the zero charge point a bit above the lower
limit). If the OP did succeed in discharging it so, the battery or the
charger would prevent it from being charged (and correctly so - its risky).

I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured
that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that the
OP used up. These batteries never require a 12 hour initial charge in spite
of what some people may tell you. If they do charge, they will take
whatever charge they require and then stop charging.

Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest it
is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery suppliers
out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I know nothing of the OP's chosen supplier, Kahlon, but I would suggest that
the best course of action is to take the matter up with them advising them
that their battery won't charge and see what they say.

M
Tue Apr 08 06:52:20 PDT 2008


"Rahul" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9A79E99A22197nospamnospamcom@207.46.248.16...
> PD43 <pauld1943@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:gfqlv3p7l88n2v9kbdnca05pakl2hdj0u9@4ax.com:
>
>> Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
>> discussing Windows XP operating system issues.
>>
>> You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
>> people you bought the battery from?
>>
>
> Sorry PD43; it wasn't my intention to mis-post or hijack the group. For
> me it seemed like a relevant technical issue: "How does WinXP
> communicate with the battery?" It's almost akin to removing
> Dell-installed-malware. Its my laptop now that I bought it from Dell and
> how can I remove all pieces of Dell junk-software (that I suspect caused
> this) from it and just leave a "clean" WinXP install?

Try:

http://www.yorkspace.com/pc-de-crapifier/

Originally written for Dell, it works on other platforms as well.

JohnO
Tue Apr 08 06:54:42 PDT 2008

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
> it is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused
> to charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
> suppliers out there that omit important safety circuits from their
> batteries.

Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and burns
a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the same time,
the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.

When I got this Dell Latitude D600, their user forums were full of stories
about batteries lasting 14 months. I've had this system for four years now,
and while the two battery packs have lost some of their stuff, they are
still at about 85% of new. This machine sits on my desk all day, every day,
attached to a charger, and I take it home to do email and some work from the
batteries. The Inspiron I had prior to this had a five year old battery,
same story. Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.

-John O

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 08:10:27 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 4:53 am, "Doug" <data...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You assume way too much. Your problem is entirely with the vendor who
> supplied your battery.
> As an owner of several Dells I can assure you that they will work with a
> (properly constructed) battery from any vendor.
> If you want to buy a battery that will work for less than the price
Dell
> charges try Pacific Battery.http://www.pacificbattery.com/delle1505.htmlfor your model. Their service
> is good and they stand behind what they sell.

Thanks Doug for your advice! I will try these guys out. I am not tied
to Kahlon; I just need some non-Dell options (just as we have for most
other computer peripherals)

> Dell Forums are user to user forums and an excellent source of information.
> They are moderated for TOS content but otherwise are not "run" by Dell.

Yes. Makes sense. My fault. I was just driven by Dell-hate. Maybe the
guys on the Dell forums will have some other constructive inputs. I'm
trying there today.

> BTW your problem certainty isn't operating system dependent, your computers
> charging hardware doesn't know or care what OS is installed in your computer
> or if in fact a harddrive is even present. A BIOS update that doesn't
> specifically address the problem you're having won't do the trick either.

Some level in the computer boot process makes a check, produces the
warning, and allows me to proceed on F1. All I could think of was
BIOS or OS. Maybe I was wrong. What do you think has the code that
does that?

--
Rahul

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 08:15:43 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 7:20 am, "M.I.5=BE" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured=

> that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that th=
e
> OP used up.

Thanks MI5!I think that is what happened. I ran the 4 hours on the
initial charge. My laptop can use the battery but my charger cannot
charge it.

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest =
it
> is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
> charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery supplie=
rs
> out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.

Rahul
Tue Apr 08 08:21:09 PDT 2008

On Apr 8, 8:54 am, "JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote:

> Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
> consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and burns
> a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the same time,
> the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.

Yes. I'd do it too from a commercial viewpoint to avoid the attendant
bad publicity. But a competitive market is always a good situation.
Even for batteries. It might not be "el-cheapo" but a "nimble-
efficient-supplier" who might drive the battery costs down.

>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.

Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)

JohnO
Tue Apr 08 12:18:51 PDT 2008

>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>
> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)

Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting so
the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a Li-Ion
plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and such.

Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.
Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
either, but that's why we have the batteries in the first place. Leaving a
Li-Ion pack in a hot car fully discharged is bad, too. That's not abuse, but
it does affect their life span.

-John O

Unknown
Tue Apr 08 12:47:13 PDT 2008

'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is a
completely erroneous statement..
That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and NiMh
are greatly helped by
draining them.
"Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message
news:06715CDB-A325-4274-8185-87C8FEF795C0@microsoft.com...
> Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to
> one.
> Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
> site
> & get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related
> specs.
>
> "Rahul" wrote:
>
>> The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
>> almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
>> around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
>> (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>>
>> After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
>> issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
>> able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
>> kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
>> recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
>> proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
>> Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
>> green/orange)
>>
>> On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
>> difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
>> disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
>> gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
>> Charge %age always remains at zero.
>>
>> I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
>> Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
>> expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>>
>> Debug steps so far:
>>
>> 1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
>> work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
>> all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>>
>> 2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
>> battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
>> some custom-version.
>>
>> 3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
>> only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
>> "expensive doorstop"
>>
>> Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
>> to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
>> ago!
>>
>> --
>> Rahul
>>

Paul
Tue Apr 08 13:56:21 PDT 2008

Unknown wrote:
> 'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is a
> completely erroneous statement..
> That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and NiMh
> are greatly helped by
> draining them.

Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery from
the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
and will develop an internal short.

Wrong way to discharge a NiCad battery pack. One cell may be
reverse biased. The effect gets worse as time goes by, increasing
the odds that one cell will end up with an internal short.

| | |
________| |___________| |___________| |_________
| | | | | |
^ | | | ^
| |
+-----------------/\ /\ /\ -----------------+
\/ \/ \/

A lot of electronic devices, disconnect their load when they detect
the level of charge getting low. And the purpose of that, is to
try to prevent damage to the battery.

The right way, is to address each cell independently, with a resistor.
The resistor should be selected, to not exceed the maximum discharge
rate for the cell (which is pretty substantial for NiCads).

The right way, is to place a resistor across individual cells.
The other two cells cannot be reverse biased this way. This
requires access to the terminals on each cell, which may be
sealed in plastic.

| | |
________| |___________| |___________| |_________
| | | | | |
^ | ^ | |
| |
+--/\ /\ /\ --+
\/ \/ \/

My battery charger, only takes the cells down to the "knee voltage"
when conditioning cells, and doesn't run the cells flat. Around
1V or 1.1V per cell or so, it disconnects the load. I don't remember
the exact voltage value it uses, but it doesn't run them to zero.

See "Maintaining a nicad pack" here, if you don't believe me.

http://loke.as.arizona.edu/~ckulesa/nicads.html

HTH,
Paul

Farad'n
Tue Apr 08 17:12:58 PDT 2008

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:37:52 -0700, Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
>almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
>around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
>(guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.
>
>After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
>issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
>able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
>kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
>recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
>proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
>Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
>green/orange)
>
>On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
>difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
>disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
>gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
>Charge %age always remains at zero.
>
>I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
>Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
>expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.
>
>Debug steps so far:
>
>1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
>work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
>all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.
>
>2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
>battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
>some custom-version.
>
>3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
>only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
>"expensive doorstop"
>
>Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
>to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
>ago!
What does any of this have to do with XP? NOTHING.

Ask elsewhere.

M
Thu Apr 10 00:34:56 PDT 2008


"JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:OWIU%23AYmIHA.2396@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
>> it is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused
>> to charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
>> suppliers out there that omit important safety circuits from their
>> batteries.
>
> Replacement packs are certainly expensive, but if I were Dell I might
> consider the same thing, only because the day that el-cheapo fails and
> burns a 3rd degree hole on your lap and gives you a bad haircut at the
> same time, the news will say Dell, not el-cheapo battery.
>
> When I got this Dell Latitude D600, their user forums were full of stories
> about batteries lasting 14 months. I've had this system for four years
> now, and while the two battery packs have lost some of their stuff, they
> are still at about 85% of new. This machine sits on my desk all day, every
> day, attached to a charger, and I take it home to do email and some work
> from the batteries. The Inspiron I had prior to this had a five year old
> battery, same story. Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>
In spite of claims of overcharging, the secret to long battery life is not
to allow the batteries to become warm. If the design of the laptop is such
that internal components heat up the battery (even if it isn't doing
anything), then the life will be considerably shortened. In general, it is
adviseable to remove the battery when on AC, if the battery is not being
charged. However, if the design of the laptop does not warm up the battery,
then it is not necessary to remove it.

My oldest Li-ion battery is 14 years old this year and still going strong.

M
Thu Apr 10 00:42:15 PDT 2008


"JohnO" <johno@!NOOSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:%23ANYI2amIHA.1368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>Treat the batteries right, they last a long time.
>>
>> Is it really common for others to mistreat them? Aren't these
>> batteries pretty robust and with features that protect them against
>> most user errors (over/ undercharging etc.)
>
> Yeah, you definitely can't overcharge a Li-Ion, the results are exciting
> so the chargers are pretty smart about that. That's why you can leave a
> Li-Ion plugged in indefinitely, unlike the old NiCad power tools and such.
>
> Running Li-Ion empty and leaving it there for a long time is no good.

Although true, the reasons are more to do with over discharge than anything
else.

> Running it all the way down, every day, isn't good for their longevity
> either,

Why? This is what they are designed for. Fully discharging (without
overdischarging) is no more detrimental to a Li-ion battery than half or
quarter discharging it before recharging. Any other advice on the subject
is a myth.

> Leaving a Li-Ion pack in a hot car fully discharged is bad, too. That's
> not abuse, but it does affect their life span.
>

It is abuse. Li-ion batteries do not like being subjected to heat. Their
life span is a function of temperature. Keep a Li-ion battery much above 30
C and can kill it in a year.

The other thing Li-ion batteries don't like is *not* being used. Lack of
use causes the cell internal resistance to rise, and this can give the
monitor circuit the impression that the battery is discharged whenever
significant current is drawn.

M
Thu Apr 10 00:43:17 PDT 2008


"Rahul" <rpnabar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:168fc445-4920-4b4c-88a6-3ae0393bcd42@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 8, 7:20 am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I believe the replacement battery was fully charged (they are manufactured
> that way and lose little charge in storage) and it was this charge that
> the
> OP used up.

Thanks MI5!I think that is what happened. I ran the 4 hours on the
initial charge. My laptop can use the battery but my charger cannot
charge it.

> Dell have past history of producing proprietary parts and I would suggest
> it
> is likely that the laptop has detected a non Dell battery and refused to
> charge it. Some suppliers do this because there are rogue battery
> suppliers
> out there that omit important safety circuits from their batteries.

I agree. But all suppliers aren't rouge, are they? A blanket refusal
on working with external suppliers sounds unfair.

-------------

Indeed not. The really shrewd part is sorting out which is which.

M
Thu Apr 10 00:52:44 PDT 2008


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:ftgln2$1c2$1@aioe.org...
> Unknown wrote:
>> 'Draining a battery completely is the worst thing you could do to one' is
>> a completely erroneous statement..
>> That is only true for a lead-acid battery such as in a car. NiCads and
>> NiMh are greatly helped by
>> draining them.
>
> Yes, if done correctly. You should not drain a multicell NiCad battery
> from
> the end terminals, like this. If the batteries are mismatched, such that
> one cell drains before the others, that one cell will be reversed biased,
> and will develop an internal short.
>
> Wrong way to discharge a NiCad battery pack. One cell may be
> reverse biased. The effect gets worse as time goes by, increasing
> the odds that one cell will end up with an internal short.
>
> | | |
> ________| |___________| |___________| |_________
> | | | | | |
> ^ | | | ^
> | |
> +------