About the clone thing

I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.

On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
another disk and boot that disk at will.

Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
move to a bigger drive?

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

TaurArian
Fri Apr 25 16:04:17 PDT 2008

You might wish to check out Acronis or Paragon -

Acronis for all your backup and data recovery needs - easy to use
http://www.acronis.com.sg/
For advice you can contact them:
http://www.acronis.com.sg/company/contacts/?s=GeneralRequest


Home and Office, Small Business & Medium and Large Business Utilities for hard disk
management etc
http://www.paragon-software.com/
Forum: http://support.paragon-software.com/


--

TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 - Update Services
http://taurarian.mvps.org
======================================
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Computer Maintenance: Acronis / Diskeeper / Paragon / Raxco


<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message news:4812528f$1$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
|I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
| drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.
|
| On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
| another disk and boot that disk at will.
|
| Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
| thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
| killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
| move to a bigger drive?
|
| JimL
|
| --
|
| America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities,
Winston
| Churchhill.

JS
Fri Apr 25 16:06:17 PDT 2008

Not true, no killer programs.
I've used Disk Imaging tools to move Windows to larger drives a number of
times without any problems.

Norton Ghost
http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/overview.jsp?pcid=br&pvid=ghost12

True Image (has a 15 day trial version also)
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

Also copying disk to disk with Norton Ghost
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/powerquest.nsf/docid/2004111701520562?OpenDocument&src=hot&prod=Norton+Ghost&ver=10.0&csm=no&seg=hho

JS

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:4812528f$1$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.
>
> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>
> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
> move to a bigger drive?
>
> JimL
>
> --
>
> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other
> possibilities, Winston
> Churchhill.

Daave
Fri Apr 25 20:50:20 PDT 2008

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:4812528f$1$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual
> cloning.
>
> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time
> onto
> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>
> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no
> such
> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in
> special
> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
> move to a bigger drive?

Anna does a good job describing cloning in this thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/c9776fcc963dc18e

You can certainly use a cloning program like Casper (which does cloning
exclusively) or Acronis True Image (which also does imagining) to clone
your hard drive, using XP.

Milt
Sat Apr 26 06:24:00 PDT 2008

Jim,

To add to what the others have said here, I have used Norton Ghost's
various versions for many years. Ghost will clone, image and do incremental
backups. Currently, people seem more satisfied with True Image than Ghost
though. (Ghost is clunky and takes a while to learn to use. But it has always
worked successfully for me.)

Please be aware that most hard drive manufacturers provide free
utilities to migrate your hard drive contents to a new drive too. I've used
Western Digital's utility a couple of times with no problem.

So, if you're just looking to migrate your old hard drive contents to a
new replacement drive, I'd say that the free utility provided by the drive
manufacturer works well enough. But if you're going to use it for regular
incremental backups, look at True Image, Ghost, etc.

Milt





"inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com" wrote:

> I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.
>
> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>
> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
> move to a bigger drive?
>
> JimL
>
> --
>
> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
> Churchhill.
>

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 12:09:57 PDT 2008

"TaurArian" <taurarianREMOVECAPS@gmail.com> said:

>You might wish to check out Acronis or Paragon -

>Acronis for all your backup and data recovery needs - easy to use

I agree. I have Acronis. Acronis is a very powerful and simple system
for people who are highly (excessively) trained or highly oriented, very
well read, technologically apt and bordering on genius.

For normal people who eat tomatoes and squash they've raised in their
gardens (as opposed to eating integrated chips, circuit boards and
algorithms) and/or those who don't have photographic memories it is hell.

The fact that you cannot dump outdated files without completely deleting
the Acronis setup and starting over from scratch has its own rewards.


JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 12:31:59 PDT 2008

Thanks

"JS" <@> said:

>Not true, no killer programs.
>I've used Disk Imaging tools to move Windows to larger drives a number of
> times without any problems.

>Norton Ghost
>http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/overview.jsp?pcid=br&pvid=ghost12

>True Image (has a 15 day trial version also)
>http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

>Also copying disk to disk with Norton Ghost
>http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/powerquest.nsf/docid/2004111701520562?OpenDocument&src=hot&prod=Norton+Ghost&ver=10.0&csm=no&seg=hho

>JS

><inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
>news:4812528f$1$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>>I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
>> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.
>>
>> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
>> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>>
>> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
>> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
>> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
>> move to a bigger drive?
>>
>> JimL
>>
>> --
>>
>> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other
>> possibilities, Winston
>> Churchhill.




JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 12:32:40 PDT 2008

"Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:

>Anna does a good job describing cloning in this thread:

>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/c9776fcc963dc18e

There's a very interesting sentence in this post, saying the clone is
"potentially" bootable.

That could mean you need a click or two or you need to slay monsters and
dragons or sacrifice virgins to get your bootable drive. Any specific
comments on this?

BTW, it has the statement that Casper 4 is more expensive. I paid over
$60 for Acronis, so the $49 for Casper 4 isn't so bad.

Thanks

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 12:38:22 PDT 2008

Thanks. I'm not quite sure what to make of this post. My goal is a
bootable copy of my current system drive. Period.

Milt <Milt@discussions.microsoft.com> said:

>Jim,

> To add to what the others have said here, I have used Norton Ghost's
>various versions for many years. Ghost will clone, image and do
>incremental backups. Currently, people seem more satisfied with True
>Image than Ghost though. (Ghost is clunky and takes a while to learn to
>use. But it has always worked successfully for me.)

If it's clunkier than Acronis it is clunky indeed.

> Please be aware that most hard drive manufacturers provide free
>utilities to migrate your hard drive contents to a new drive too. I've
>used Western Digital's utility a couple of times with no problem.

> So, if you're just looking to migrate your old hard drive contents
>to a new replacement drive, I'd say that the free utility provided by
>the drive manufacturer works well enough. But if you're going to use it
>for regular incremental backups, look at True Image, Ghost, etc.

>Milt

Is all this about content backup or an immediately bootable hard drive?

BTW, the system I used to have could boot from any partition at will,
assuming it had a system installed. Possible in XP?


>"inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com" wrote:

>> I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
>> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual cloning.
>>
>> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time onto
>> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>>
>> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
>> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
>> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
>> move to a bigger drive?
>>
>> JimL
>>
>> --
>>
>> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
>> Churchhill.
>>


JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

JS
Sat Apr 26 12:52:43 PDT 2008

You're Welcome.

JS

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:48138341$2$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
> Thanks
>
> "JS" <@> said:
>
>>Not true, no killer programs.
>>I've used Disk Imaging tools to move Windows to larger drives a number of
>> times without any problems.
>
>>Norton Ghost
>>http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/overview.jsp?pcid=br&pvid=ghost12
>
>>True Image (has a 15 day trial version also)
>>http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/
>
>>Also copying disk to disk with Norton Ghost
>>http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/powerquest.nsf/docid/2004111701520562?OpenDocument&src=hot&prod=Norton+Ghost&ver=10.0&csm=no&seg=hho
>
>>JS
>
>><inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
>>news:4812528f$1$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>>>I saw a thread here asking whether you could clone a system to another
>>> drive. From what I could see, there was no discussion of actual
>>> cloning.
>>>
>>> On another OS I used I could do a true clone of the disk at any time
>>> onto
>>> another disk and boot that disk at will.
>>>
>>> Is the discussion of other methods based on a fact that there is no such
>>> thing as a true clone utility available or does micro$oft put in special
>>> killer programs designed to detect cloning and destroy any attempts to
>>> move to a bigger drive?
>>>
>>> JimL
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other
>>> possibilities, Winston
>>> Churchhill.
>
>
>
>
> JimL
>
> --
>
> America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other
> possibilities, Winston
> Churchhill.

Daave
Sat Apr 26 13:01:48 PDT 2008

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:48138473$3$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
> "Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:
>
>>Anna does a good job describing cloning in this thread:
>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/c9776fcc963dc18e
>
> There's a very interesting sentence in this post, saying the clone is
> "potentially" bootable.
>
> That could mean you need a click or two or you need to slay monsters
> and
> dragons or sacrifice virgins to get your bootable drive. Any specific
> comments on this?

Anna would have to answer, but I suppose she means if the drive you are
cloning is faulty and not bootable, then the clone would also not be
bootable (but at least the data and settings should still be there!). By
definition, if you are cloning a bootable drive, then the clone must be
bootable, too.

Daave
Sat Apr 26 13:08:41 PDT 2008

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:4813860e$4$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
> My goal is a bootable copy of my current system drive. Period.

In that case, cloning isn't absolutely necessary, You may choose instead
to image your working, bootable hard drive. Once you restore the image,
the contents of the drive will be the same (including being bootable).
But cloning will give you the same result, just in a different way.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 13:26:56 PDT 2008

"JS" <@> said:

>You're Welcome.

>JS

By GOLLY! A person who can SPELL!!!!

<G>

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 13:35:33 PDT 2008

"Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:

><inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
>news:4813860e$4$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>> My goal is a bootable copy of my current system drive. Period.

>In that case, cloning isn't absolutely necessary, You may choose instead
>to image your working, bootable hard drive. Once you restore the image,

Restore? That sounds like going back to mere backup as opposed to making
a bootable drive.

Thanks

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

inkleputDEL
Sat Apr 26 13:28:25 PDT 2008

"Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:



><inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
>news:48138473$3$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>> "Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:
>>
>>>Anna does a good job describing cloning in this thread:
>>
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/c9776fcc963dc18e
>>
>> There's a very interesting sentence in this post, saying the clone is
>> "potentially" bootable.
>>
>> That could mean you need a click or two or you need to slay monsters
>> and
>> dragons or sacrifice virgins to get your bootable drive. Any specific
>> comments on this?

>Anna would have to answer, but I suppose she means if the drive you are
>cloning is faulty and not bootable, then the clone would also not be
>bootable (but at least the data and settings should still be there!). By
>definition, if you are cloning a bootable drive, then the clone must be
>bootable, too.

Thanks. I once had a cloner that made a bootable clone on another hard
drive - then proceeded to completely wipe the rest of the target drive.
Do you know if Casper does this? Or can I send a clone (image?) to a
partition large enough to hold the original and leave the rest of the
target drive alone?


JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

Daave
Mon Apr 28 17:33:23 PDT 2008

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:481391db$2$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...

> Thanks. I once had a cloner that made a bootable clone on another
> hard
> drive - then proceeded to completely wipe the rest of the target
> drive.
> Do you know if Casper does this? Or can I send a clone (image?) to a
> partition large enough to hold the original and leave the rest of the
> target drive alone?

I think you should ping Anna in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general since
she uses Casper.

Daave
Mon Apr 28 17:35:24 PDT 2008

<inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
news:4813927b$3$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
> "Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:
>
>><inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com> wrote in message
>>news:4813860e$4$vaxyrchg$mr2ice@news.isp.com...
>>> My goal is a bootable copy of my current system drive. Period.
>
>>In that case, cloning isn't absolutely necessary, You may choose
>>instead
>>to image your working, bootable hard drive. Once you restore the
>>image,
>
> Restore? That sounds like going back to mere backup as opposed to
> making
> a bootable drive.

No, I didn't say to restore the backup; I said to restore the *image*!
This page might be helpful:

"Cloning or Imaging HDD":

http://www.williamaford.com/CloningaHDD.php

inkleputDEL
Mon Apr 28 21:32:05 PDT 2008

"Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:

>No, I didn't say to restore the backup; I said to restore the *image*!
>This page might be helpful:

My concern is not so much restore _from_ what as restore _to_ what. My
base question is about moving to a different hard drive and ditching the
old, small drive. To me the word "restore" has always meant fixing the
old one. If you have created a bootable drive there is nothing to restore
- only to use. My whole clone question is about making a bootable clone
of the system, assuming that can be done, not fixing the old one. Fixing
up the old one based on a _backup_ of _any kind_ is totally beside the
point to me. "Can you make a new bootable system on a different HD in
minutes" is my entire question.

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

Daave
Tue Apr 29 06:30:55 PDT 2008

inkleputDEL@ETEisp.com wrote:
> "Daave" <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> said:
>
>> No, I didn't say to restore the backup; I said to restore the
>> *image*! This page might be helpful:
>
> My concern is not so much restore _from_ what as restore _to_ what.
> My base question is about moving to a different hard drive and
> ditching the old, small drive. To me the word "restore" has always
> meant fixing the old one. If you have created a bootable drive there
> is nothing to restore - only to use. My whole clone question is
> about making a bootable clone of the system, assuming that can be
> done, not fixing the old one. Fixing up the old one based on a
> _backup_ of _any kind_ is totally beside the point to me. "Can you
> make a new bootable system on a different HD in minutes" is my entire
> question.

Did you read the linked page I gave you? That answers all your
questions.

Bottom line: There are two ways to accomplish what is in your question.

1. Clone the drive to a new (larger) drive. Then swap drives whenever
you need to.

or

2. Image your hard drive to *any* destination (even a series of CDs or
DVDs will do the trick). Then if you need to, put in your new, larger
drive, and then restore the (bootable) image, using the new drive as the
destination. Note that your definition of "restore" is not the one in
use here!

Casper does cloning only. Its advantage is that it allows you to do
incremental cloning (again, I refer you to Anna's post). Acronis True
Image does both cloning and imaging. Although it allows you to do
incremental imaging, you won't be able to do incremental cloning.