Cross platform templates: Recommended graphics file format?

Hello

I make some templates in Word 2002 on PC and want to include a vector
graphic element which I designed in Adobe Illustrator. First I inserted
it in the EMF format which seemed to work well; anyway when opening the
template in Mac Word 2001 the graphic was distorted.

So I converted the graphic to a bitmap TIFF - the Mac displays it but
does not print it.

Thinking JPG was a real cross platform format I converted the TIFF to
JPG. Now it prints on both my Mac and PC, and I can live with the
slightly blurry look on screen - but now my client who has a newer
version of Mac Word told me she sees some white gaps in the graphic both
on screen and in the printout.

Is there a graphics format (preferred a vector format) that works on
both Macs and PCs?

Thanks for a hint!
Markus

Elliott
Wed Dec 13 07:08:18 CST 2006

In article <uXstmkqHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, Markus Ernst
<derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I make some templates in Word 2002 on PC and want to include a vector
> graphic element which I designed in Adobe Illustrator. First I inserted
> it in the EMF format which seemed to work well; anyway when opening the
> template in Mac Word 2001 the graphic was distorted.
>
> So I converted the graphic to a bitmap TIFF - the Mac displays it but
> does not print it.
>
> Thinking JPG was a real cross platform format I converted the TIFF to
> JPG. Now it prints on both my Mac and PC, and I can live with the
> slightly blurry look on screen - but now my client who has a newer
> version of Mac Word told me she sees some white gaps in the graphic both
> on screen and in the printout.
>
> Is there a graphics format (preferred a vector format) that works on
> both Macs and PCs?

Since you started in Illy, I'd work pretty hard to see if you could get
an acceptable cross platform eps. The big advantage is that unless you
went mad with gradients and transparency, it will print beautifully at
any scale. One disadvantage is making the bitmap preview of your eps
acceptable on both platforms when viewed on screen in Word. Another is
the stupid way Word sends the yukky preview to PDF on the Mac. (You get
around that by printing to postscript first, then using Preview.app to
make the PDF)

Microsoft had their collective brains on lower power standby when it
came to graphics, especially when providing cross platform formats. You
have to admire that they provided so many different ways to screw it
up. Choice is good.

Don't even *try* to get Microsoft's WMF (EMF) 'vector' format working
on Mac. Its idea of 'vector' is a bunch of straight lines. It
transports a famous virus which takes out PCs. Errrrk!

I'm amazed that the TIFF did not print on the Mac. Is it a black and
white image? Some strange variants of B&W tiffs are possible. Play with
the TIFF save options in GraphicConverter on the Mac side. Sorry, I
don't know of anything half as good in PC land. Maybe a pass through
Photoshop will scare it into some kind of sanity?

Acceptable TIFFs are enormous files. JPG works fine on Mac. Some people
here claim that it is not so hot in some flavours of PC Word. They also
claim that PNG is OK. I'm less than thrilled with PNG on the Mac side.
They can't really be as bad for the file size as I see 'em, but I have
never bothered to find out why. If you have ever tried to use
Macromedia Fireworks, you'll be put off PNG for life. That is, if you
live long enough for the images to finish rendering.

Don't attempt more than 300dpi in either TIFF or JPG format. Word on
the Mac will mangle it.

I would look hard at the steps you are taking in getting from
Illustrator to raster; for example, test with other images of different
parentage that did not involve Illy. I think I have seen thin
horizontal white strips on JPGs that came from Illy, usually worse when
printed.

(Can you tell I'm not a great fan of Illy either? Adobe should have
gone back to Freehand 8 and fixed that up when they bought Macromedia
;-) )

Hope there is something useful for you in among all those cheap shots.
Some mornings, you just gotta take it out on somebody. I'll get some
more coffee.

--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248

Markus
Wed Dec 13 07:42:15 CST 2006

Elliott Roper schrieb:
> In article <uXstmkqHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, Markus Ernst
> <derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> I make some templates in Word 2002 on PC and want to include a vector
>> graphic element which I designed in Adobe Illustrator. First I inserted
>> it in the EMF format which seemed to work well; anyway when opening the
>> template in Mac Word 2001 the graphic was distorted.
>>
>> So I converted the graphic to a bitmap TIFF - the Mac displays it but
>> does not print it.
>>
>> Thinking JPG was a real cross platform format I converted the TIFF to
>> JPG. Now it prints on both my Mac and PC, and I can live with the
>> slightly blurry look on screen - but now my client who has a newer
>> version of Mac Word told me she sees some white gaps in the graphic both
>> on screen and in the printout.
>>
>> Is there a graphics format (preferred a vector format) that works on
>> both Macs and PCs?
>
> Since you started in Illy, I'd work pretty hard to see if you could get
> an acceptable cross platform eps. The big advantage is that unless you
> went mad with gradients and transparency, it will print beautifully at
> any scale. One disadvantage is making the bitmap preview of your eps
> acceptable on both platforms when viewed on screen in Word. Another is
> the stupid way Word sends the yukky preview to PDF on the Mac. (You get
> around that by printing to postscript first, then using Preview.app to
> make the PDF)
>
> Microsoft had their collective brains on lower power standby when it
> came to graphics, especially when providing cross platform formats. You
> have to admire that they provided so many different ways to screw it
> up. Choice is good.
>
> Don't even *try* to get Microsoft's WMF (EMF) 'vector' format working
> on Mac. Its idea of 'vector' is a bunch of straight lines. It
> transports a famous virus which takes out PCs. Errrrk!
>
> I'm amazed that the TIFF did not print on the Mac. Is it a black and
> white image? Some strange variants of B&W tiffs are possible. Play with
> the TIFF save options in GraphicConverter on the Mac side. Sorry, I
> don't know of anything half as good in PC land. Maybe a pass through
> Photoshop will scare it into some kind of sanity?
>
> Acceptable TIFFs are enormous files. JPG works fine on Mac. Some people
> here claim that it is not so hot in some flavours of PC Word. They also
> claim that PNG is OK. I'm less than thrilled with PNG on the Mac side.
> They can't really be as bad for the file size as I see 'em, but I have
> never bothered to find out why. If you have ever tried to use
> Macromedia Fireworks, you'll be put off PNG for life. That is, if you
> live long enough for the images to finish rendering.
>
> Don't attempt more than 300dpi in either TIFF or JPG format. Word on
> the Mac will mangle it.
>
> I would look hard at the steps you are taking in getting from
> Illustrator to raster; for example, test with other images of different
> parentage that did not involve Illy. I think I have seen thin
> horizontal white strips on JPGs that came from Illy, usually worse when
> printed.
>
> (Can you tell I'm not a great fan of Illy either? Adobe should have
> gone back to Freehand 8 and fixed that up when they bought Macromedia
> ;-) )
>
> Hope there is something useful for you in among all those cheap shots.
> Some mornings, you just gotta take it out on somebody. I'll get some
> more coffee.
>

Thanks a lot for these detailled infos! As it is indeed a B&W image I
won't go on the rasterized way as you told me 300 dpi is the maximum. At
the moment I have the best results with a WMF image I exported after
having significantly cleaned up the vectors - converted all to outlines
and merged them to one single path. This seems to be some kind of lowest
common denominator of Mac and PC Word worlds.

Elliott
Wed Dec 13 09:11:06 CST 2006

In article <Ot1p4xrHHHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>, Markus Ernst
<derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote:

> Elliott Roper schrieb:
> > In article <uXstmkqHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, Markus Ernst
> > <derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> I make some templates in Word 2002 on PC and want to include a vector
> >> graphic element which I designed in Adobe Illustrator. First I inserted
> >> it in the EMF format which seemed to work well; anyway when opening the
> >> template in Mac Word 2001 the graphic was distorted.
> >>
> >> So I converted the graphic to a bitmap TIFF - the Mac displays it but
> >> does not print it.
> >>
> >> Thinking JPG was a real cross platform format I converted the TIFF to
> >> JPG. Now it prints on both my Mac and PC, and I can live with the
> >> slightly blurry look on screen - but now my client who has a newer
> >> version of Mac Word told me she sees some white gaps in the graphic both
> >> on screen and in the printout.
> >>
> >> Is there a graphics format (preferred a vector format) that works on
> >> both Macs and PCs?
> >
> > Since you started in Illy, I'd work pretty hard to see if you could get
> > an acceptable cross platform eps. The big advantage is that unless you
> > went mad with gradients and transparency, it will print beautifully at
> > any scale. One disadvantage is making the bitmap preview of your eps
> > acceptable on both platforms when viewed on screen in Word. Another is
> > the stupid way Word sends the yukky preview to PDF on the Mac. (You get
> > around that by printing to postscript first, then using Preview.app to
> > make the PDF)
> >
> > Microsoft had their collective brains on lower power standby when it
> > came to graphics, especially when providing cross platform formats. You
> > have to admire that they provided so many different ways to screw it
> > up. Choice is good.
> >
> > Don't even *try* to get Microsoft's WMF (EMF) 'vector' format working
> > on Mac. Its idea of 'vector' is a bunch of straight lines. It
> > transports a famous virus which takes out PCs. Errrrk!
> >
> > I'm amazed that the TIFF did not print on the Mac. Is it a black and
> > white image? Some strange variants of B&W tiffs are possible. Play with
> > the TIFF save options in GraphicConverter on the Mac side. Sorry, I
> > don't know of anything half as good in PC land. Maybe a pass through
> > Photoshop will scare it into some kind of sanity?
> >
> > Acceptable TIFFs are enormous files. JPG works fine on Mac. Some people
> > here claim that it is not so hot in some flavours of PC Word. They also
> > claim that PNG is OK. I'm less than thrilled with PNG on the Mac side.
> > They can't really be as bad for the file size as I see 'em, but I have
> > never bothered to find out why. If you have ever tried to use
> > Macromedia Fireworks, you'll be put off PNG for life. That is, if you
> > live long enough for the images to finish rendering.
> >
> > Don't attempt more than 300dpi in either TIFF or JPG format. Word on
> > the Mac will mangle it.
> >
> > I would look hard at the steps you are taking in getting from
> > Illustrator to raster; for example, test with other images of different
> > parentage that did not involve Illy. I think I have seen thin
> > horizontal white strips on JPGs that came from Illy, usually worse when
> > printed.
> >
> > (Can you tell I'm not a great fan of Illy either? Adobe should have
> > gone back to Freehand 8 and fixed that up when they bought Macromedia
> > ;-) )
> >
> > Hope there is something useful for you in among all those cheap shots.
> > Some mornings, you just gotta take it out on somebody. I'll get some
> > more coffee.
> >
>
> Thanks a lot for these detailled infos! As it is indeed a B&W image I
> won't go on the rasterized way as you told me 300 dpi is the maximum. At
> the moment I have the best results with a WMF image I exported after
> having significantly cleaned up the vectors - converted all to outlines
> and merged them to one single path. This seems to be some kind of lowest
> common denominator of Mac and PC Word worlds.

I would try again for eps. It prints *much* better than WMF if you can
get a good preview for on-screen use.

300dpi is pretty good for most purposes, but even at that resolution
TIFFs are large files.

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Markus
Wed Dec 13 12:45:38 CST 2006

Elliott Roper schrieb:

> I would try again for eps. It prints *much* better than WMF if you can
> get a good preview for on-screen use.

Thank you, I retried this - the Mac version insists in drawing a grey
border around the screen display. Maybe I will try adding, let's say, 1
mm of white space to the image and cropping it in Word... If it works I
will let you know.

--
Markus

Elliott
Wed Dec 13 14:01:09 CST 2006

In article <uZQeZbuHHHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, Markus Ernst
<derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote:

> Elliott Roper schrieb:
>
> > I would try again for eps. It prints *much* better than WMF if you can
> > get a good preview for on-screen use.
>
> Thank you, I retried this - the Mac version insists in drawing a grey
> border around the screen display. Maybe I will try adding, let's say, 1
> mm of white space to the image and cropping it in Word... If it works I
> will let you know.

I don't think that will work. The secret lies in your choice of
software (features) that produce the eps preview.

The eps preview is a second image (raster) of the vector representation
of the graphic object. The raster is supposed to help those programs
(most of them) that cannot directly draw the eps. They display the
preview on screen, but hand the eps over to the printer, which, if is
Postscript or an emulation of Postscript will draw it like Illustrator
intended.

It is hard for a Mac person like me to give advice on how to proceed on
the Windows side. Try messing about with any preview options that
Illustrator offers.

If you put a white border round the picture in Word to hide the grey
one in the preview, you can bet good money that Word will use that as
an excuse to screw up the eps when printed.

It shouldn't be so painful, but that is the way it is.

--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248