Mike
Fri Feb 20 09:09:35 CST 2004
I should have realised that my post would provoke a strong response, and as
Beth reported, it is also born out of frustration that one of my posts sent
me back to MVPS.org when I had already stated I had been there searching for
clues.
And I "doth my cap" to the answer regarding opening and saving Word files
via floppy. Although Suzanne didn't mention specifically Word files in her
statement, I should have realised we were in a Word thread and that her
statement related to Word and not generic files.
Apologies.
Mike
"Beth Melton" <bmelton@NoSpam4Memvps.org> wrote in message
news:OzTecUx9DHA.2184@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi Mike,
>
> Let's put some perspective on your comments.
>
> I've been supporting this group for several years and 99% of errors
> that are encountered when you start Word are covered in the FAQ.
>
> If all posters searched previous threads, Google Groups, MS KB, etc
> when they encounter errors starting Word then they would find the
> solution before posting in the newsgroup and we would not see the same
> questions asked over and over.
>
> Now, I suspect the underlying issue is based on advice you received in
> this newsgroup. I took a look at your previous posts here and noted
> you were directed to the FAQ after stating you reviewed the mvps.org
> site. Based on the description of the problem I highly doubt an MVP
> would not direct you to the FAQ. I can see how that response would be
> frustrating. <sigh>
>
> Regarding working directly off a floppy disk:
>
> This is advice that will ~never~ fail.
>
> First here is some background on what happens when Word performs a
> save:
>
> Word creates a temp file in the same location as the document.
> (basically two versions of the file on the floppy during this step)
> Then it deletes original file and renames temp to take the place of
> the original file.
>
> Various issues are encountered when working directly off a floppy in
> Word:
>
> 1. If two versions of the document (the temp and original), any temp
> files that are created in the source folder, and or backup copies of
> the document, are too large for the floppy then various issues are
> encountered (these are just a few off the top of my head):
>
> * If using an unpatched version of Word 2000 a bug could be
> encountered which deletes deleted the document from the disk. NOT
> good. Here's the documenting KB article:
>
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249859
>
> * Instead of "Drive too full" many users encounter an error along
> the lines of: "Word cannot complete the save due to a file permission
> error". The file permission error is due to the inability to fully
> create the new document during the save. Upon occasion some temp files
> needed for the new document are deleted and of course are needed later
> which results in a corrupt document. And I'm sure you will agree the
> message is a bit cryptic:
>
> Here's a Google search on this issue:
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%27file+permission%27+floppy+word
>
> 2. Word performs some clean up on the document when it is closed. If
> the floppy disk is removed before the document is closed it can lead
> to document corruption.
>
> 3. Some users wish to save the document to multiple floppies. If the
> disk is switched too soon then various temp files Word writes can not
> be located when needed. And of course this leads to document
> corruption.
>
> 4. Microsoft added an option as of Word 2002 for removable media. If
> this was not an issue there would be no need to add an option.
>
> Background:
>
> Under Tools/Options/Save there is an option for: "Make local copy of
> files stored on network or removable drives". If there isn't 3MG of
> available disk space then it copies the file to the local drive for
> you and then replaces it once it is saved.
>
> Issues with this option:
> * It is not turned on by default. This option can be turned on but
> user preferences are reset to the defaults it is turned off. This, of
> course, brings us back to the underlying problem.
> * No one really knows if this option works 'as advertised' nor is
> anyone who has encountered a corrupt document due to working directly
> off a floppy willing to see if it really works. ;-)
>
> 4. I've come across several cautionary statements in various KB
> articles regarding working directly off a floppy. Here's one for
> example
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=173564:
>
> "NOTE: Due to the advanced file handling techniques employed with the
> Office family of applications, it is not recommended that you
> routinely open and save Office documents using diskettes."
>
> Even Microsoft recommends working directly off a floppy disk. :-)
> --
> Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
> assistance by email can not be acknowledged.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Beth Melton
> Microsoft Office MVP
>
> Word FAQ:
http://mvps.org/word
> TechTrax eZine:
http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
> MVP FAQ site:
http://mvps.org/
>
>
> "Mike Goodson" <mikegoodson@economist.com> wrote in message
> news:ukDZaVu9DHA.3820@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Suzanne,
> >
> > I don't mean to attack you personally but I have posted and read
> loads of
> > messages in this specific newsgroup and the most frustrating reply
> is the
> > "See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm". This
> is not
> > really helpful as most of us who post are "technical" and are
> capable of
> > searching the MVP and Microsoft Tech Support websites first for
> solutions
> > (and yes sometimes they do have the solutions). We post here if we
> cannot
> > find the answer elsewhere.
> >
> > And I have never heard anything so ridiculous as "Never open a file
> from a
> > floppy, never save to a floppy" and I have been in I.T for 15
> years!! Maybe
> > you will be advising Brian next that his problem is due to "memory
> burnout".
> >
> > Come on MVP's, please try and help us, don't treat us like idiots
> who have
> > never switched a PC on before!!
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > "Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbarnhill@mvps.org> wrote in message
> > news:Osg$vWj9DHA.3012@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > Oh, well, the problem is in opening a file from a floppy,
> something you
> > > should never do. Always copy to the HD first, then open.
> Similarly, never
> > > save directly to a floppy; save the to HD, then copy to the
> floppy.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Suzanne S. Barnhill
> > > Microsoft MVP (Word)
> > > Words into Type
> > > Fairhope, Alabama USA
> > > Word MVP FAQ site:
http://www.word.mvps.org
> > > Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
> newsgroup
> > so
> > > all may benefit.
> > >
> > > "Brian" <slider@capecod.net> wrote in message
> > > news:69156115.0402180524.62a40169@posting.google.com...
> > > > Thank you but I've been there. I tried a few of those
> suggestions but
> > > > it doesn't explain why it only happens with the files that came
> from
> > > > the floppy. Other Word docs open just fine w/o forcing the
> machine to
> > > > reboot.
> > > >
> > > > "Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbarnhill@mvps.org> wrote in message
> > > news:<uoBDTrd9DHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> > > > > See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Suzanne S. Barnhill
> > > > > Microsoft MVP (Word)
> > > > > Words into Type
> > > > > Fairhope, Alabama USA
> > > > > Word MVP FAQ site:
http://www.word.mvps.org
> > > > > Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to
> the
> > > newsgroup so
> > > > > all may benefit.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Brian" <slider@capecod.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:69156115.0402171210.3ce6c1e6@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > All:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've done some searching but haven't found anything that
> explains
> > this
> > > > > > problem. A user has a floppy disk with Word docs on it. If
> she
> > > > > > attempts to open the docs on a certain machine, the machine
> opens
> > the
> > > > > > doc in Word and then reboots. No errors, no warnings, just a
> reboot.
> > > > > > Copied files to the C:\ drive, same result. Tried the floppy
> in MY
> > > > > > machine and all is fine. Open any OTHER Word docs on the
> suspect
> > > > > > machine and everything is fine. Scanned floppy for viruses
> and it's
> > > > > > clean. Suspect machine: W2K SP4, all patches, O2K SP3 all
> patches.
> > > > > > There are 25 other machines identical to the one in question
> and
> > they
> > > > > > don't have the problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian
> > >
> >
> >
>
>