XP and Vista in dualboot

Hi, first of all sorry for my english!

I hope not to be OT, i've this problem:
i wanna install Vista and XP on the same machine, a Dell
notebook.
Now, i now that's better to install XP, and then Vista.
This way, Vista boot loader will overwrite the XP boot
loader and so i'll be able to start the OS that i want.

But i know also that there was a "little" compatibility
problem: if Vista and XP are both installed on the same
machine, XP deletes the Vista restore points and the
Vista most recent backups.

Has this problem been risolved by Microsoft?
Or do you know any workaround?
Or can you address me in the right place?

Thanks a lot, bye!

Colin
Thu May 08 09:11:08 PDT 2008

Problem solved as follows:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/926185

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0D113273-94F0-4A4E-8CEC-521A4041B7F8@microsoft.com...
> Hi, first of all sorry for my english!
>
> I hope not to be OT, i've this problem:
> i wanna install Vista and XP on the same machine, a Dell
> notebook.
> Now, i now that's better to install XP, and then Vista.
> This way, Vista boot loader will overwrite the XP boot
> loader and so i'll be able to start the OS that i want.
>
> But i know also that there was a "little" compatibility
> problem: if Vista and XP are both installed on the same
> machine, XP deletes the Vista restore points and the
> Vista most recent backups.
>
> Has this problem been risolved by Microsoft?
> Or do you know any workaround?
> Or can you address me in the right place?
>
> Thanks a lot, bye!
>

Nepatsfan
Thu May 08 09:18:59 PDT 2008

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0D113273-94F0-4A4E-8CEC-521A4041B7F8@microsoft.com...
> Hi, first of all sorry for my english!
>
> I hope not to be OT, i've this problem:
> i wanna install Vista and XP on the same machine, a Dell
> notebook.
> Now, i now that's better to install XP, and then Vista.
> This way, Vista boot loader will overwrite the XP boot
> loader and so i'll be able to start the OS that i want.
>
> But i know also that there was a "little" compatibility
> problem: if Vista and XP are both installed on the same
> machine, XP deletes the Vista restore points and the
> Vista most recent backups.
>
> Has this problem been risolved by Microsoft?
> Or do you know any workaround?
> Or can you address me in the right place?
>
> Thanks a lot, bye!
>


There's a workaround where the Vista drive is basically hidden from the XP
installation. In involves editing the registry on XP. Take a look here for more
info.

No restore points are available when you use Windows Vista or Windows Server
2008 in a dual-boot configuration together with an earlier Windows operating
system
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185

Keep in mind that the value you create depends on where you've installed Vista.
The example in the article reflects a setup where XP is installed on C and Vista
on D. That leads to a volume name of \DosDevices\D:. If Vista was installed on a
different drive, such as F, the value name would be \DosDevices\F:.

Good luck

Nepatsfan

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 09:21:49 PDT 2008

"Colin Barnhorst" ha scritto:
> Problem solved as follows:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/926185

Thanks a lot.
It was just the article i was trying to find!

Hi!

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 09:28:53 PDT 2008

"Nepatsfan" ha scritto:
> There's a workaround where the Vista drive is basically hidden from the XP
> installation. In involves editing the registry on XP. Take a look here for
> more info.
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
>
> Keep in mind that the value you create depends on where you've installed
> Vista. The example in the article reflects a setup where XP is installed
> on C and Vista on D. That leads to a volume name of \DosDevices\D:. If
> Vista was installed on a different drive, such as F, the value name would
> be \DosDevices\F:.

Ok, thanx for the clarification.
I've read that's possible to use BitLocker in Vista to solve the problem,
but
it's not so simple...

Maybe we will see again in the Vista NG,
Bye!

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 09:59:20 PDT 2008

Sorry, but there's a little thing i can't understand in the article:

> You can use this workaround only when the restore points for Windows XP
> and for Windows Vista are mutually exclusive. The restore points are
> mutual
> exclusive when no restore points are common across the volume in Windows
> XP
> or the volume in Windows Vista.

What does it mean?
In the system properties of WinVista, and in the system properties of WinXP,
i
must not have the same drives checked?

> For example, consider the following scenario:
> ? The C driver is a volume in Windows XP. ? The D driver is a volume in
> Windows Vista.

Does it mean that Vista is installed in the D partition, and XP in the C
one?

> In this scenario, the Windows Vista restore points are added on the E
> driver.

What?!

Waiting for answers, bye!

Mark
Thu May 08 10:14:42 PDT 2008

I've used that registry fix myself. It works good.

Mark

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5B792782-2FBF-41E3-9351-9DF169092F2A@microsoft.com...
> "Nepatsfan" ha scritto:
>> There's a workaround where the Vista drive is basically hidden from the
>> XP installation. In involves editing the registry on XP. Take a look here
>> for more info.
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
>>
>> Keep in mind that the value you create depends on where you've installed
>> Vista. The example in the article reflects a setup where XP is installed
>> on C and Vista on D. That leads to a volume name of \DosDevices\D:. If
>> Vista was installed on a different drive, such as F, the value name would
>> be \DosDevices\F:.
>
> Ok, thanx for the clarification.
> I've read that's possible to use BitLocker in Vista to solve the problem,
> but
> it's not so simple...
>
> Maybe we will see again in the Vista NG,
> Bye!
>
>

Mark
Thu May 08 10:23:14 PDT 2008

I don't know if it matters but I tell System Restore in XP not to monitor
Vista and vice versa.

Mark

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1D171441-7BB1-456D-B660-3C1F5F791854@microsoft.com...
> Sorry, but there's a little thing i can't understand in the article:
>
>> You can use this workaround only when the restore points for Windows XP
>> and for Windows Vista are mutually exclusive. The restore points are
>> mutual
>> exclusive when no restore points are common across the volume in Windows
>> XP
>> or the volume in Windows Vista.
>
> What does it mean?
> In the system properties of WinVista, and in the system properties of
> WinXP, i
> must not have the same drives checked?
>
>> For example, consider the following scenario:
>> ? The C driver is a volume in Windows XP. ? The D driver is a volume in
>> Windows Vista.
>
> Does it mean that Vista is installed in the D partition, and XP in the C
> one?
>
>> In this scenario, the Windows Vista restore points are added on the E
>> driver.
>
> What?!
>
> Waiting for answers, bye!
>
>

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 10:30:41 PDT 2008

"Colin Barnhorst" ha scritto:
> First of all name your volumes (drives) and so you don't get confused by
> the
> letters. That way you see the same thing in both systems. You will be
> using the drive letter XP sees for the Vista volume when creating the
> registry key, regardless of how the drive is enumerated in Vista. Second,
> don't set System Restore in either system to monitor the other's drive.

Ok, you say it clearly!
So if i have this configuration:

C: <--- WinXP
D: <--- WinVista
E: <--- another drive

my aim is to hide D: partition to XP.
And so the key i'll put in the registry will be \DosDevices\D:
Then i've to disable the creation of the XP restore points in the
D: drive (from XP), and i've to disable the creation of the Vista
restore points in the C: drive (from Vista).

And finally, if i tell Vista to save its restore points into the E: drive,
i have to tell XP not to save its restore points in the same drive.

Have i understood?

> Bitlocker is not available in the Home editions of Vista so you may not
> even
> have it. In any case, the least intrusive solution is the registry edit.

Yes i knew about it, i've Ultimate so i've BitLocker too.

> I have written an extensive grey-paper on exactly how to set this up on a
> multiboot system. Just use the portion relating to XP x86. I have
> attached
> it. All you need to be concerned with is telling XP that the Vista
> volume(s) is(are) offline. Nothing else.

Thank you very much.
I'll read it as soon as i can!

Bye!

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 10:37:35 PDT 2008

"Mark" ha scritto:
> I don't know if it matters but I tell System Restore in XP not to monitor
> Vista and vice versa.

Yes, it matters, this is the solution.
Hi!

Colin
Thu May 08 10:59:09 PDT 2008

The drive enumeration you list is the one seen from XP, correct? If so,
that's what you go by because you won't be doing any registry entries in
Vista; just XP.

Do not put Vista's restore points on a drive seen by XP or XP's volsnap.sys
will delete them on boot into XP. Let Vista store its restore points on its
volume or partition the data drive and create a registry entry to hide the
partition used for Vista's restore points from XP.

Normally there is no point is having System Restore monitor data drives
because SR does not do anything about data files anyway. Just be sure
Vista's SR is only monitoring D: and XP's is only monitoring C: (or whatever
the respective drives are in each system).

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:CC2C1CA1-F5FB-444F-8186-78A3ABBD1B94@microsoft.com...
> "Colin Barnhorst" ha scritto:
>> First of all name your volumes (drives) and so you don't get confused by
>> the
>> letters. That way you see the same thing in both systems. You will be
>> using the drive letter XP sees for the Vista volume when creating the
>> registry key, regardless of how the drive is enumerated in Vista.
>> Second,
>> don't set System Restore in either system to monitor the other's drive.
>
> Ok, you say it clearly!
> So if i have this configuration:
>
> C: <--- WinXP
> D: <--- WinVista
> E: <--- another drive
>
> my aim is to hide D: partition to XP.
> And so the key i'll put in the registry will be \DosDevices\D:
> Then i've to disable the creation of the XP restore points in the
> D: drive (from XP), and i've to disable the creation of the Vista
> restore points in the C: drive (from Vista).
>
> And finally, if i tell Vista to save its restore points into the E: drive,
> i have to tell XP not to save its restore points in the same drive.
>
> Have i understood?
>
>> Bitlocker is not available in the Home editions of Vista so you may not
>> even
>> have it. In any case, the least intrusive solution is the registry edit.
>
> Yes i knew about it, i've Ultimate so i've BitLocker too.
>
>> I have written an extensive grey-paper on exactly how to set this up on a
>> multiboot system. Just use the portion relating to XP x86. I have
>> attached
>> it. All you need to be concerned with is telling XP that the Vista
>> volume(s) is(are) offline. Nothing else.
>
> Thank you very much.
> I'll read it as soon as i can!
>
> Bye!
>
>

Colin
Thu May 08 10:59:50 PDT 2008

That doesn't help. The problem is caused by XP's volsnap.sys, not System
Restore.

"Mark" <secureourborders@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uDzI0ATsIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I don't know if it matters but I tell System Restore in XP not to monitor
>Vista and vice versa.
>
> Mark
>
> "8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1D171441-7BB1-456D-B660-3C1F5F791854@microsoft.com...
>> Sorry, but there's a little thing i can't understand in the article:
>>
>>> You can use this workaround only when the restore points for Windows XP
>>> and for Windows Vista are mutually exclusive. The restore points are
>>> mutual
>>> exclusive when no restore points are common across the volume in Windows
>>> XP
>>> or the volume in Windows Vista.
>>
>> What does it mean?
>> In the system properties of WinVista, and in the system properties of
>> WinXP, i
>> must not have the same drives checked?
>>
>>> For example, consider the following scenario:
>>> . The C driver is a volume in Windows XP. . The D driver is a volume in
>>> Windows Vista.
>>
>> Does it mean that Vista is installed in the D partition, and XP in the C
>> one?
>>
>>> In this scenario, the Windows Vista restore points are added on the E
>>> driver.
>>
>> What?!
>>
>> Waiting for answers, bye!
>>
>>
>
>

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 13:03:27 PDT 2008

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
> The drive enumeration you list is the one seen from XP, correct?

Yes.

> you won't be doing any registry entries in Vista; just XP.

Yes, ok.

> Do not put Vista's restore points on a drive seen by XP or XP's
> volsnap.sys will delete them on boot into XP.

Even if that drive is not used by restore points of WinXP?

> Normally there is no point is having System Restore monitor data drives
> because SR does not do anything about data files anyway. Just be sure
> Vista's SR is only monitoring D: and XP's is only monitoring C: (or
> whatever the respective drives are in each system).

Ok, thanks!
Bye.

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 13:50:59 PDT 2008

Colin, i've read your attachment.
Only two questions, just to make sure i've understood:

1. from XP, all the drives that are used by Vista's restore points must
be hidden, right?

2. i suppose i can't remove the drive letters from the hidden
partitions by using "Disk Manager" (even if it would have been
nicer not to see the hidden partitions in "My Computer"), because
if i do so, the keys i created in the WinXP registry would not be
meaningful anymore.

Correct?
Thanks for your support, bye!

Colin
Thu May 08 14:16:54 PDT 2008

The restore point files must be protected. But it goes further than that.
Review the discussion in the attachment about the types of files that are
affected. It comes down to this; whenever Vista's volsnap.sys is used to
take snapshots, those snapshots are vulnerable to XP's volsnap.sys when XP
starts up. Most of the recovery options in Vista rely on volsnap.sys to
take the snapshots that are used, whether system restore points, shadow
copies, backups, CompletePC images, etc. These are the files that are
vulnerable. It is not a System Restore problem, it is a Volume Shadow
Copies Services problem. System Restore points are just some of the
victims.

Don't worry about the volumes that appear in My Computer. Just know what
they are.

I would turn off monitoring of all data drives by both Vista and XP because
you simply gain nothing monitoring them. Think about what SR does and does
not protect anyway.


"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:E83F42FC-A2F8-462A-A7F3-A3A5E8531C78@microsoft.com...
> Colin, i've read your attachment.
> Only two questions, just to make sure i've understood:
>
> 1. from XP, all the drives that are used by Vista's restore points must
> be hidden, right?
>
> 2. i suppose i can't remove the drive letters from the hidden
> partitions by using "Disk Manager" (even if it would have been
> nicer not to see the hidden partitions in "My Computer"), because
> if i do so, the keys i created in the WinXP registry would not be
> meaningful anymore.
>
> Correct?
> Thanks for your support, bye!
>

8n20_C#
Thu May 08 14:33:29 PDT 2008

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
> It is not a System Restore problem, it is a Volume Shadow Copies Services
> problem. System Restore points are just some of the victims.

Yes, understood that.

> I would turn off monitoring of all data drives by both Vista and XP
> because you simply gain nothing monitoring them.

Not sure. Vista creates shadow copies, so if i stop monitor other drives
than
Vista one, i couldn't have the ability to restore previous versions of files
stored on those drives.

For this reason i'd like to know an exact answer to my first question:
>1. from XP, all the drives that are used by Vista's restore points must
>be hidden, right?

Bye!

P.S.: but why Microsoft has not yet corrected this little problem?
It's sufficient replace volsnap.sys with a patched version, isn't it?
Strange...

Bye!

Colin
Thu May 08 15:38:00 PDT 2008

All the drives that store Vista VSS created files, not just restore points,
should be protected.

But what drives use Vista restore points? Please understand that SR cannot
recover lost data files, just system files and those are on the Vista system
volume, not the other drives. That's why SR is of no use with data drives.

"8n20_C#" <enzoc73@msn.com> wrote in message
news:7B84AB1D-3837-4962-B93C-728B35112AE9@microsoft.com...
> "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
>> It is not a System Restore problem, it is a Volume Shadow Copies Services
>> problem. System Restore points are just some of the victims.
>
> Yes, understood that.
>
>> I would turn off monitoring of all data drives by both Vista and XP
>> because you simply gain nothing monitoring them.
>
> Not sure. Vista creates shadow copies, so if i stop monitor other drives
> than
> Vista one, i couldn't have the ability to restore previous versions of
> files
> stored on those drives.
>
> For this reason i'd like to know an exact answer to my first question:
>>1. from XP, all the drives that are used by Vista's restore points must
>>be hidden, right?
>
> Bye!
>
> P.S.: but why Microsoft has not yet corrected this little problem?
> It's sufficient replace volsnap.sys with a patched version, isn't it?
> Strange...
>
> Bye!
>
>

8n20_C#
Fri May 09 03:48:38 PDT 2008

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
> All the drives that store Vista VSS created files, not just restore
> points, should be protected.

You're right!
And i suppose these files are the backup ones, the restore points, and
the shadow copies.

But let's suppose i have (from XP and Vista) this drive structure:
C: <-- WinXP
D: <-- WinVista
E: <-- Programs

In the E: drive i wanna install all the programs, grouped in two folders
(one containing programs for Vista, the other one containing programs
for XP).

Now suppose that E: is not monitored by System Restore, neither from XP
nor from Vista.
Must i hide this partition to XP? How can i know if Vista's volsnap writes
something to this drive? Better to hide it?

> But what drives use Vista restore points? Please understand that SR
> cannot recover lost data files, just system files and those are on the
> Vista system volume, not the other drives.

Well, i'll make a test as soon as i can.
If Vista cannot recover lost data files, what about Shadow Copies, that can
restore accidentally deleted files? (And any kind of files, not only system
files...).

Thanks for your patience!
Bye!

8n20_C#
Fri May 09 07:05:17 PDT 2008

"8n20_C#" wrote:
>> Please understand that SR
>> cannot recover lost data files, just system files and those are on the
>> Vista system volume, not the other drives.
>
> Well, i'll make a test as soon as i can.

I've made the test.
It's as i thought...
I have three partitions, on the first there's Vista, and second and third
ones are for general use. Only the system partition and another one are
monitored by Vista System Restore.

I created two text files, one in the 2nd partition, one in the 3rd one.
Then i created a restore point.
Finally, i modified both files.

On the second partition (monitored by SR), i've been able to restore
the original version of the file, obtained by a shadow copy.
On the third partition (not monitored by SR), i've NOT been able to
do that.

Bye!