Moving files on your computer

I have a real basic simplistic understanding of how files are saved/stored
on your hard drive. I understand about how they are broken down and stored
in clusters and how that information is written to the File Allocation Table
so those files don't get over written by new files.

I understand how a deleted file, even though it no longer shows up in any
folder is still physically present on your harddrive until at some unknown
point in time it gets over written.

But I have been pondering something for a while and thought I'd ask the
experts.....

Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from Folder
A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
updated in the FAT or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder, but
is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?

Malke
Thu Jul 03 08:46:43 PDT 2008

Computer Questions wrote:

> I have a real basic simplistic understanding of how files are saved/stored
> on your hard drive. I understand about how they are broken down and stored
> in clusters and how that information is written to the File Allocation
> Table so those files don't get over written by new files.
>
> I understand how a deleted file, even though it no longer shows up in any
> folder is still physically present on your harddrive until at some unknown
> point in time it gets over written.
>
> But I have been pondering something for a while and thought I'd ask the
> experts.....
>
> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from
> Folder A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive
> simply updated in the FAT or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one
> which shows up in the new location, and one which does not appear in
> either floder, but is none the less still physically present on my
> harddrive?

The location is simply updated. There are not two copies of the file, just
one.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Pegasus
Thu Jul 03 08:47:42 PDT 2008


"Computer Questions" <greg@cccccccccccccccccccc.com> wrote in message
news:YbmdnQSgHeURcvHVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@centurytel.net...
>I have a real basic simplistic understanding of how files are saved/stored
>on your hard drive. I understand about how they are broken down and stored
>in clusters and how that information is written to the File Allocation
>Table so those files don't get over written by new files.
>
> I understand how a deleted file, even though it no longer shows up in any
> folder is still physically present on your harddrive until at some unknown
> point in time it gets over written.
>
> But I have been pondering something for a while and thought I'd ask the
> experts.....
>
> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from
> Folder A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive
> simply updated in the FAT or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one
> which shows up in the new location, and one which does not appear in
> either floder, but is none the less still physically present on my
> harddrive?

When you move a file then its location is updated in the source and
target folder. No data is copied or moved unless the move involves
different disk drives. You can easily verify this yourself: It takes the
same amount of time to move a 1kByte or a 1 GByte file.

When moving data from one drive to another then the data on the
source drive will linger for some time, until overwritten by new data.

Terry
Thu Jul 03 08:51:06 PDT 2008

The date and time was 7/3/2008 8:26 AM, and on a whim, Computer
Questions pounded out on the keyboard:

> I have a real basic simplistic understanding of how files are saved/stored
> on your hard drive. I understand about how they are broken down and stored
> in clusters and how that information is written to the File Allocation Table
> so those files don't get over written by new files.
>
> I understand how a deleted file, even though it no longer shows up in any
> folder is still physically present on your harddrive until at some unknown
> point in time it gets over written.
>
> But I have been pondering something for a while and thought I'd ask the
> experts.....
>
> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from Folder
> A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
> updated in the FAT or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
> up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder, but
> is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?
>
>
>

Hi CQ,

Just from the speed of the process, I'm sure only the pointers to the
location of the files are changed and the data is not moved from its
disc location (there's no reason to really). When you move a large
group of files from one folder to another on the same drive, it happens
very quickly. But if you move them from one drive to another, it takes
much longer.

--
Terry R.

***Reply Note***
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Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Bob
Thu Jul 03 09:04:50 PDT 2008



Terry R. wrote:

> The date and time was 7/3/2008 8:26 AM, and on a whim, Computer
> Questions pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> I have a real basic simplistic understanding of how files are
>> saved/stored on your hard drive. I understand about how they are
>> broken down and stored in clusters and how that information is written
>> to the File Allocation Table so those files don't get over written by
>> new files.
>>
>> I understand how a deleted file, even though it no longer shows up in
>> any folder is still physically present on your harddrive until at some
>> unknown point in time it gets over written.
>>
>> But I have been pondering something for a while and thought I'd ask
>> the experts.....
>>
>> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from
>> Folder A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive
>> simply updated in the FAT or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one
>> which shows up in the new location, and one which does not appear in
>> either floder, but is none the less still physically present on my
>> harddrive?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hi CQ,
>
> Just from the speed of the process, I'm sure only the pointers to the
> location of the files are changed and the data is not moved from its
> disc location (there's no reason to really). When you move a large
> group of files from one folder to another on the same drive, it happens
> very quickly. But if you move them from one drive to another, it takes
> much longer.
>

Correct, the pointers/index is all that is changed as long as the move
remains in the same partition. (a drive can be partitioned)

Ken
Thu Jul 03 10:16:06 PDT 2008

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:26:00 -0700, "Computer Questions"
<greg@cccccccccccccccccccc.com> wrote:


> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from Folder
> A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
> updated in the FAT


Yes.


> or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
> up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder, but
> is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?


No.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Computer
Thu Jul 03 11:12:06 PDT 2008

Thanks guys..... Thats kind of what I figured, I just wanted to get my
thought verified.

Tim
Thu Jul 03 13:15:33 PDT 2008

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote:

>On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:26:00 -0700, "Computer Questions"
><greg@cccccccccccccccccccc.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from Folder
>> A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
>> updated in the FAT

>Yes.

My understanding is that:

1. a new copy of the file is made (meaning a new entry in the FAT),
and one or more entries are made for that file in the target
directory.

2. The original file is deleted, meaning the FAT and the source
directory are updated.

It would be considerably more efficient if only the directories were
updated, so that the entries in the original directory are basically
moved to the new directory (so the entries in the new directory point
to the same place in the FAT)

>> or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
>> up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder, but
>> is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?

The data is still physically present, that's why file recovery
programs can work sometimes. The space that data occupies is now part
of the free space chain, which means that it may be overwritten at any
time.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(Shell/User)
Slattery_T@bls.gov
http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

Bill
Thu Jul 03 13:28:49 PDT 2008

Tim Slattery wrote:
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:26:00 -0700, "Computer Questions"
>> <greg@cccccccccccccccccccc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from
>>> Folder
>>> A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
>>> updated in the FAT
>
>> Yes.
>
> My understanding is that:
>
> 1. a new copy of the file is made (meaning a new entry in the FAT),

No, those are two different things. A copy of the file is different than
a new entry in the FAT or MFT.

> and one or more entries are made for that file in the target directory.
>
> 2. The original file is deleted,

Not the file itself.

> meaning the FAT and the source directory are updated.

Again, these are two different things.

> It would be considerably more efficient if only the directories were
> updated, so that the entries in the original directory are basically
> moved to the new directory (so the entries in the new directory point
> to the same place in the FAT)
>
>>> or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
>>> up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder,
>>> but
>>> is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?
>
> The data is still physically present, that's why file recovery
> programs can work sometimes. The space that data occupies is now part
> of the free space chain, which means that it may be overwritten at any
> time.
>
> --
> Tim Slattery
> MS MVP(Shell/User)
> Slattery_T@bls.gov
> http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

Bill
Thu Jul 03 13:29:23 PDT 2008

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:26:00 -0700, "Computer Questions"
> <greg@cccccccccccccccccccc.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Lets say I have a file on my computer. Now I drag/drop that file from
>> Folder
>> A to Folder B. Is that files physical location on the harddrive simply
>> updated in the FAT
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> or do I end up with 2 copys of the file, one which shows
>> up in the new location, and one which does not appear in either floder,
>> but
>> is none the less still physically present on my harddrive?
>
>
> No.

Exactly.