XP SP3 Major flaw

I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my son's
PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3 which
then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was to
restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked and
installed flawlessly.

Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and had to
go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get any
updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying to go
to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any other
updates.

My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a fresh
install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates except
for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
systems quite yet.

Paul
--
Duh-Oh!

PA
Wed May 07 17:19:42 PDT 2008

If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be installed
before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
updates may be offered.

<IMHO>
Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your anti-virus
application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party firewall
prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make sure
you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be connected to
the internet without an active firewall.

After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a third-party
firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
</IMHO>
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/


gimpguy2000 wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
> son's
> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3 which
> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was to
> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked and
> installed flawlessly.
>
> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and had to
> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get any
> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying to
> go
> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
> other
> updates.
>
> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a fresh
> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
> except
> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
> systems quite yet.
>
> Paul

gimpguy2000
Wed May 07 23:15:00 PDT 2008

Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....

I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing SP3 ,
there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter how
many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the PC was
useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal, but I am
into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get confused or think
updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when much needed
patching is left behind.

I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit, same
thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this as an
issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.

The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not 100%.
So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3 install, and
now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or NON
installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how they
worked many prior and should definitely do so now.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

Paul
--
Duh-Oh!


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be installed
> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
> updates may be offered.
>
> <IMHO>
> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your anti-virus
> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party firewall
> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make sure
> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be connected to
> the internet without an active firewall.
>
> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a third-party
> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
> </IMHO>
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>
>
> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
> > son's
> > PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3 which
> > then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
> > Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
> > install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was to
> > restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked and
> > installed flawlessly.
> >
> > Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and had to
> > go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get any
> > updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying to
> > go
> > to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
> > other
> > updates.
> >
> > My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a fresh
> > install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
> > except
> > for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
> > systems quite yet.
> >
> > Paul
>
>

PA
Thu May 08 09:00:42 PDT 2008

What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? Is Windows Live
OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?

Re-reading your posts, I noticed:

>>> On my wife's HP and my son's
>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3...

> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen...

What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on both
machines?

What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each of
these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this the
first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?
--
~PA Bear


gimpguy2000 wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....
>
> I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
> installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing SP3
> ,
> there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
> update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter how
> many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the PC
> was useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal, but
> I
> am into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get confused or
> think updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when
> much
> needed patching is left behind.
>
> I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit,
> same
> thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
> installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this as
> an
> issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.
>
> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not
> 100%.
> So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3 install,
> and
> now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or NON
> installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how they
> worked many prior and should definitely do so now.
>
> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
>
> Paul
>
>> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be
>> installed
>> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
>> updates may be offered.
>>
>> <IMHO>
>> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your anti-virus
>> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party firewall
>> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make
>> sure
>> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be connected
>> to the internet without an active firewall.
>>
>> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
>> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a third-party
>> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
>> </IMHO>
>> --
>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>
>>
>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
>>> son's
>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3
>>> which
>>> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
>>> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
>>> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was to
>>> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked and
>>> installed flawlessly.
>>>
>>> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and had
>>> to
>>> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get
>>> any
>>> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying to
>>> go
>>> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
>>> other
>>> updates.
>>>
>>> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a
>>> fresh
>>> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
>>> except
>>> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
>>> systems quite yet.
>>>
>>> Paul

gimpguy2000
Thu May 08 10:54:06 PDT 2008

> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? <
It has to do with the fact that WLS could not install after SP3 was
installed, I thought that was fairly clear, no offense.

> Is Windows Live OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?<
There was no OneCare installed on either machine, I tried only after all
updates or supposed updates, to install messenger, mail, those live services.


> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on both
> machines?<
Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro. I did the EXPRESS update which
installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually asks
to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
installed.

So once again, after thinking "the first time" that updates were all
installed since it SAID NO CRITICAL UPDATES available except for one software
and one hardware for the nic card. So then I try windows live mail and
messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.

I first put in a help email to notify the live team it wasn't working but
once I found it happening on both machines, knew exactly what it was so set
both computers back before SP3 and everything, including CUSTOM updating from
DESKTOP worked.
--
Duh-Oh!


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? Is Windows Live
> OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
>
> Re-reading your posts, I noticed:
>
> >>> On my wife's HP and my son's
> >>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3...
>
> > The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> > updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen...
>
> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on both
> machines?
>
> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each of
> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this the
> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?
> --
> ~PA Bear
>
>
> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....
> >
> > I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
> > installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing SP3
> > ,
> > there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
> > update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter how
> > many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the PC
> > was useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal, but
> > I
> > am into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get confused or
> > think updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when
> > much
> > needed patching is left behind.
> >
> > I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit,
> > same
> > thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
> > installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this as
> > an
> > issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.
> >
> > The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> > updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not
> > 100%.
> > So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3 install,
> > and
> > now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or NON
> > installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how they
> > worked many prior and should definitely do so now.
> >
> > Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be
> >> installed
> >> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
> >> updates may be offered.
> >>
> >> <IMHO>
> >> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your anti-virus
> >> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party firewall
> >> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make
> >> sure
> >> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be connected
> >> to the internet without an active firewall.
> >>
> >> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
> >> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a third-party
> >> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
> >> </IMHO>
> >> --
> >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> >> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
> >>
> >>
> >> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> >>> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
> >>> son's
> >>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3
> >>> which
> >>> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
> >>> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
> >>> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was to
> >>> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked and
> >>> installed flawlessly.
> >>>
> >>> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and had
> >>> to
> >>> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get
> >>> any
> >>> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying to
> >>> go
> >>> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
> >>> other
> >>> updates.
> >>>
> >>> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a
> >>> fresh
> >>> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
> >>> except
> >>> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
> >>> systems quite yet.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
>
>

PA
Thu May 08 11:36:51 PDT 2008

Repost:

>> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each
>> of
>> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
>> the
>> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?

One possibility:

Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft
Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
installation:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144

NB: Also applies to clean installs, upgrade installs, and Recovery installs.
--
~PA Bear


gimpguy2000 wrote:
>> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it?
>
> It has to do with the fact that WLS could not install after SP3 was
> installed, I thought that was fairly clear, no offense.
>
>> Is Windows Live OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
>
> There was no OneCare installed on either machine, I tried only after all
> updates or supposed updates, to install messenger, mail, those live
> services.
>
>> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
>> both
>> machines?
>
> Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro. I did the EXPRESS update
> which
> installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually
> asks
> to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> installed.
>
> So once again, after thinking "the first time" that updates were all
> installed since it SAID NO CRITICAL UPDATES available except for one
> software and one hardware for the nic card. So then I try windows live
> mail
> and messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
>
> I first put in a help email to notify the live team it wasn't working but
> once I found it happening on both machines, knew exactly what it was so
> set
> both computers back before SP3 and everything, including CUSTOM updating
> from DESKTOP worked.
>
> PA Bear wrote:
>> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? Is Windows Live
>> OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
>>
>> Re-reading your posts, I noticed:
>>
>>>>> On my wife's HP and my son's
>>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3...
>>
>>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
>>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen...
>>
>> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
>> both
>> machines?
>>
>> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each
>> of
>> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
>> the
>> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?
>> --
>> ~PA Bear
>>
>>
>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>> Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....
>>>
>>> I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
>>> installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing
>>> SP3
>>> ,
>>> there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
>>> update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter
>>> how
>>> many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the
>>> PC
>>> was useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal,
>>> but
>>> I
>>> am into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get confused
>>> or
>>> think updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when
>>> much
>>> needed patching is left behind.
>>>
>>> I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit,
>>> same
>>> thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
>>> installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this
>>> as
>>> an
>>> issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.
>>>
>>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
>>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not
>>> 100%.
>>> So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3 install,
>>> and
>>> now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or
>>> NON
>>> installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how
>>> they
>>> worked many prior and should definitely do so now.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be
>>>> installed
>>>> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
>>>> updates may be offered.
>>>>
>>>> <IMHO>
>>>> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your
>>>> anti-virus
>>>> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party
>>>> firewall
>>>> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make
>>>> sure
>>>> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be
>>>> connected
>>>> to the internet without an active firewall.
>>>>
>>>> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
>>>> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a
>>>> third-party
>>>> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
>>>> </IMHO>
>>>> --
>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>>>> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
>>>>> son's
>>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3
>>>>> which
>>>>> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
>>>>> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
>>>>> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was
>>>>> to
>>>>> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked
>>>>> and
>>>>> installed flawlessly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and
>>>>> had
>>>>> to
>>>>> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get
>>>>> any
>>>>> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
>>>>> other
>>>>> updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a
>>>>> fresh
>>>>> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
>>>>> except
>>>>> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
>>>>> systems quite yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul

gimpguy2000
Thu May 08 13:31:01 PDT 2008

Thanks. Unfortunately, the update agent was already installed for the new
updates, right after install active x , etc... so that's not the issue. As
well, I didn't have Auto update on when I do this manually. And lastly, these
were fresh installs, no repairs. I have been half tempted to reinstall my OS
and re-create the situation, but really don't want to go through the trouble.
I first thought it was just the HP pavilion, but then when it happened on my
son's pc, home-built, I knew it was the SP3 update. I haven't had issues with
updates in the last 11 years, with the exception of auto update looping quite
a while back and simply updating manually. But that was some time ago. Other
than that, all updates have worked rather smoothly, except for this one. I am
going to uninstall live mail on my machine and see if it can in fact be
re-installed.

Paul
--
Duh-Oh!


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> Repost:
>
> >> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each
> >> of
> >> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
> >> the
> >> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?
>
> One possibility:
>
> Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft
> Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
> installation:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
>
> NB: Also applies to clean installs, upgrade installs, and Recovery installs.
> --
> ~PA Bear
>
>
> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> >> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it?
> >
> > It has to do with the fact that WLS could not install after SP3 was
> > installed, I thought that was fairly clear, no offense.
> >
> >> Is Windows Live OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
> >
> > There was no OneCare installed on either machine, I tried only after all
> > updates or supposed updates, to install messenger, mail, those live
> > services.
> >
> >> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
> >> both
> >> machines?
> >
> > Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro. I did the EXPRESS update
> > which
> > installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> > were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually
> > asks
> > to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> > typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> > installed.
> >
> > So once again, after thinking "the first time" that updates were all
> > installed since it SAID NO CRITICAL UPDATES available except for one
> > software and one hardware for the nic card. So then I try windows live
> > mail
> > and messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
> >
> > I first put in a help email to notify the live team it wasn't working but
> > once I found it happening on both machines, knew exactly what it was so
> > set
> > both computers back before SP3 and everything, including CUSTOM updating
> > from DESKTOP worked.
> >
> > PA Bear wrote:
> >> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? Is Windows Live
> >> OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
> >>
> >> Re-reading your posts, I noticed:
> >>
> >>>>> On my wife's HP and my son's
> >>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3...
> >>
> >>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> >>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen...
> >>
> >> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
> >> both
> >> machines?
> >>
> >> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were each
> >> of
> >> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
> >> the
> >> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new installs"?
> >> --
> >> ~PA Bear
> >>
> >>
> >> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> >>> Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....
> >>>
> >>> I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
> >>> installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing
> >>> SP3
> >>> ,
> >>> there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
> >>> update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter
> >>> how
> >>> many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the
> >>> PC
> >>> was useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal,
> >>> but
> >>> I
> >>> am into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get confused
> >>> or
> >>> think updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when
> >>> much
> >>> needed patching is left behind.
> >>>
> >>> I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit,
> >>> same
> >>> thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
> >>> installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this
> >>> as
> >>> an
> >>> issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.
> >>>
> >>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
> >>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not
> >>> 100%.
> >>> So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3 install,
> >>> and
> >>> now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or
> >>> NON
> >>> installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how
> >>> they
> >>> worked many prior and should definitely do so now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be
> >>>> installed
> >>>> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3, other
> >>>> updates may be offered.
> >>>>
> >>>> <IMHO>
> >>>> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your
> >>>> anti-virus
> >>>> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party
> >>>> firewall
> >>>> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make
> >>>> sure
> >>>> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be
> >>>> connected
> >>>> to the internet without an active firewall.
> >>>>
> >>>> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
> >>>> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a
> >>>> third-party
> >>>> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
> >>>> </IMHO>
> >>>> --
> >>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> >>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
> >>>>> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and my
> >>>>> son's
> >>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3
> >>>>> which
> >>>>> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown after.
> >>>>> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would not
> >>>>> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked was
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> installed flawlessly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and
> >>>>> had
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't get
> >>>>> any
> >>>>> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when trying
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> go
> >>>>> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get any
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> updates.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a
> >>>>> fresh
> >>>>> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL updates
> >>>>> except
> >>>>> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on those
> >>>>> systems quite yet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul
>
>

Harry
Thu May 08 14:21:49 PDT 2008

gimpguy2000 wrote:

> Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro.

With SP2 included?

> I did the EXPRESS update which
> installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually asks
> to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> installed.

Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)

Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not being
offered?

(I believe there may still be some needed updates that haven't been revised to
deploy to SP3 via Windows Update yet, I hope this will be addressed shortly.)

Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
that you really are still running IE6?

> So then I try windows live mail and
> messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.

You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3 yet.

Harry.

PA
Thu May 08 15:10:17 PDT 2008

> these were fresh installs, no repairs.

One mo' time: Was WinXP, WinXP SP1, or WinXP SP2 freshly installed?
--
~PA Bear


gimpguy2000 wrote:
> Thanks. Unfortunately, the update agent was already installed for the new
> updates, right after install active x , etc... so that's not the issue. As
> well, I didn't have Auto update on when I do this manually. And lastly,
> these were fresh installs, no repairs. I have been half tempted to
> reinstall my OS and re-create the situation, but really don't want to go
> through the trouble. I first thought it was just the HP pavilion, but then
> when it happened on my son's pc, home-built, I knew it was the SP3 update.
> I haven't had issues with updates in the last 11 years, with the exception
> of auto update looping quite a while back and simply updating manually.
> But
> that was some time ago. Other than that, all updates have worked rather
> smoothly, except for this one. I am going to uninstall live mail on my
> machine and see if it can in fact be re-installed.
>
> Paul
>
>> Repost:
>>
>>>> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were
>>>> each
>>>> of
>>>> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
>>>> the
>>>> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new
>>>> installs"?
>>
>> One possibility:
>>
>> Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from
>> Microsoft
>> Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
>> installation:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
>>
>> NB: Also applies to clean installs, upgrade installs, and Recovery
>> installs. --
>> ~PA Bear
>>
>>
>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>>> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it?
>>>
>>> It has to do with the fact that WLS could not install after SP3 was
>>> installed, I thought that was fairly clear, no offense.
>>>
>>>> Is Windows Live OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
>>>
>>> There was no OneCare installed on either machine, I tried only after all
>>> updates or supposed updates, to install messenger, mail, those live
>>> services.
>>>
>>>> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
>>>> both
>>>> machines?
>>>
>>> Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro. I did the EXPRESS update
>>> which
>>> installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection.
>>> There
>>> were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually
>>> asks
>>> to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There
>>> are
>>> typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
>>> installed.
>>>
>>> So once again, after thinking "the first time" that updates were all
>>> installed since it SAID NO CRITICAL UPDATES available except for one
>>> software and one hardware for the nic card. So then I try windows live
>>> mail
>>> and messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
>>>
>>> I first put in a help email to notify the live team it wasn't working
>>> but
>>> once I found it happening on both machines, knew exactly what it was so
>>> set
>>> both computers back before SP3 and everything, including CUSTOM updating
>>> from DESKTOP worked.
>>>
>>> PA Bear wrote:
>>>> What does "Windows live services" have to do with it? Is Windows Live
>>>> OneCare installed on one or both of the machines?
>>>>
>>>> Re-reading your posts, I noticed:
>>>>
>>>>>>> On my wife's HP and my son's
>>>>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install
>>>>>>> SP3...
>>>>
>>>>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
>>>>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen...
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by "did new installs"? Did you do "new installs" on
>>>> both
>>>> machines?
>>>>
>>>> What version of WinXP (e.g., WinXP Gold; WinXP SP1; WinXP SP2) were
>>>> each
>>>> of
>>>> these machines running when you took them to Windows Update? Was this
>>>> the
>>>> first time these machines had been updated since doing to "new
>>>> installs"?
>>>> --
>>>> ~PA Bear
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the reply. Very good suggestions but unfortunately....
>>>>>
>>>>> I had no other protection other than XP firewall. They were both clean
>>>>> installs, no other software except for XP pro itself. After installing
>>>>> SP3
>>>>> ,
>>>>> there were NO updates offered except for one software and one hardware
>>>>> update. No other updates were installed , NOR did they show no matter
>>>>> how
>>>>> many times I went back into it. Plus going from the update icon on the
>>>>> PC
>>>>> was useless, had to go directly through browser which is no big deal,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I
>>>>> am into computer repair so maybe for other users, they may get
>>>>> confused
>>>>> or
>>>>> think updates WERE installed when they weren't. That is a problem when
>>>>> much
>>>>> needed patching is left behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did reboot numerous times, no avail. Disabled XP firewall for a bit,
>>>>> same
>>>>> thing. Then on the Windows live services end, it was blocking the
>>>>> installation completely, AAMOF, the live support have even marked this
>>>>> as
>>>>> an
>>>>> issue with SP3 and was obvious it was the cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only computer not affected was mine, but I already had all prior
>>>>> updates, etc... else I wonder if the same would happen. Likely but not
>>>>> 100%.
>>>>> So the only resolve was to go back as stated, to before the SP3
>>>>> install,
>>>>> and
>>>>> now everything is back to normal. I think MS needs to make SP3 last or
>>>>> NON
>>>>> installable until ALL other updates are in fact in place. This is how
>>>>> they
>>>>> worked many prior and should definitely do so now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>> If Windows Update/Automatic Updates offers WinXP SP3, it must be
>>>>>> installed
>>>>>> before any other updates will be offered. After installing SP3,
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> updates may be offered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <IMHO>
>>>>>> Temporarily disable all real-time protections afforded by your
>>>>>> anti-virus
>>>>>> application, any anti-spyware applications, and any third-party
>>>>>> firewall
>>>>>> prior to installing SP3. If you disable a third-party firewall, make
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>> you then enable the Windows Firewall: The machine should not be
>>>>>> connected
>>>>>> to the internet without an active firewall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After installing SP3 /and rebooting twice/, check to make sure your
>>>>>> real-time protections have been re-enabled; If you disabled a
>>>>>> third-party
>>>>>> firewall, remember to re-enable it and disable the Windows Firewall.
>>>>>> </IMHO>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>>>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>>>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>>>>>>> I was wondering if anyone else had this issue. On my wife's HP and
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> son's
>>>>>>> PC, did new installs, however express update chooses to install SP3
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> then prevented any other updates from being downloaded or shown
>>>>>>> after.
>>>>>>> Thinking it installed all updates, Windows live mail, etc... would
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> install. After contacting the support, the only thing that worked
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> restore to the fresh install prior to SP3 and then live apps worked
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> installed flawlessly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another thing, I updated manually and even then had a hard time and
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go back to the update site manually, "not from PC" else couldn't
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> updates besides the SP3 update. What a mess. A note:even when
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to update site using browser, if SP3 installed first, couldn't get
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> updates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My PC handled it fine but I already had all my updates and wasn't a
>>>>>>> fresh
>>>>>>> install as the other two. My suggestion, manually install ALL
>>>>>>> updates
>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>> for SP3 , then SP3 although, I am not chancing installing SP3 on
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> systems quite yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul

gimpguy2000
Thu May 08 16:00:00 PDT 2008

Sorry, thought I included that when I said XPpro, but didn't. Yes, installed
with SP2 included. So everything except for the 99 updates typically showing
was already pre-installed.

Paul
--
Duh-Oh!


"Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:

> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>
> > Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro.
>
> With SP2 included?
>
> > I did the EXPRESS update which
> > installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> > were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually asks
> > to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> > typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> > installed.
>
> Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
> included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)
>
> Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not being
> offered?
>
> (I believe there may still be some needed updates that haven't been revised to
> deploy to SP3 via Windows Update yet, I hope this will be addressed shortly.)
>
> Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
> However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
> that you really are still running IE6?
>
> > So then I try windows live mail and
> > messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
>
> You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
> newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3 yet.
>
> Harry.
>

gimpguy2000
Thu May 08 20:24:01 PDT 2008

Sorry for not giving a full reply prior, had some things to do.

<<Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)>>

Well, that was exactly my take too. I thought, ok, SP3 should have all these
updates rolled into one right? It left out WMP 11, IE7, Net framework 3, or
any Net Framework update for that matter. Besides leaving out those updates,
and regular fixes, there was no hope in seeing them by going back to the
updates and downloading them. It came up empty.

<<Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not
being
offered?>>

Heh, going by what happened to me, yes, all of them. ;-) I don't know about
others but when I installed SP3 on my pc, it doesn't even state in the
history what updates were or weren't installed.

<<Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
that you really are still running IE6?>>

Just checked two days ago and it's all "supposed to be included" from what
I gather.



<<You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3
yet.>>

yep, did that already, they said it was an SP3 issue. I am going to install
SP3 on those computers again and see if in fact they DO work now with SP3
since updates were installed otherwise.
--
Duh-Oh!


"Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:

> gimpguy2000 wrote:
>
> > Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro.
>
> With SP2 included?
>
> > I did the EXPRESS update which
> > installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> > were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually asks
> > to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> > typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> > installed.
>
> Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
> included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)
>
> Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not being
> offered?
>
> (I believe there may still be some needed updates that haven't been revised to
> deploy to SP3 via Windows Update yet, I hope this will be addressed shortly.)
>
> Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
> However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
> that you really are still running IE6?
>
> > So then I try windows live mail and
> > messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
>
> You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
> newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3 yet.
>
> Harry.
>

gimpguy2000
Thu May 08 22:32:02 PDT 2008

Ok, I installed SP3 and here is my report:

Last time checking the update folder, it didn't hold any updates of the 99 I
mentioned prior. This was using EXPRESS INSTALL which may be where the
problem lies, not sure and didn't get to try CUSTOM when all this occurred at
first.

This time, I chose to install SP3
Update folder was at : <1.20 gb/5,626 files>
Checked updates on site , there were 9 High Priority, 9 software, 0
hardware, and after SP3..
Update folder is now at: <1.74 gb/8,158 files>
Checked back at the update site, there are now 2 High priority, 3 software,
0 hardware.
Two high priority updates left behind, one being net frame 2, no biggie, I
have 3 so it will likely fail the install anyway. The other is...
WM Format runtime 9.5 and 11 KB941569

Upon reboot, it did have to reinstall all live services again, on it's own
mind you but it did. Now, this all worked likely as it did on mine, because
all other updates were already installed. Using the EXPRESS INSTALL, it
installs SP3 first which is likely where it's flubbing itself.


Paul


--
Duh-Oh!


"gimpguy2000" wrote:

> Sorry for not giving a full reply prior, had some things to do.
>
> <<Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
> included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)>>
>
> Well, that was exactly my take too. I thought, ok, SP3 should have all these
> updates rolled into one right? It left out WMP 11, IE7, Net framework 3, or
> any Net Framework update for that matter. Besides leaving out those updates,
> and regular fixes, there was no hope in seeing them by going back to the
> updates and downloading them. It came up empty.
>
> <<Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not
> being
> offered?>>
>
> Heh, going by what happened to me, yes, all of them. ;-) I don't know about
> others but when I installed SP3 on my pc, it doesn't even state in the
> history what updates were or weren't installed.
>
> <<Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
> However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
> that you really are still running IE6?>>
>
> Just checked two days ago and it's all "supposed to be included" from what
> I gather.
>
>
>
> <<You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
> newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3
> yet.>>
>
> yep, did that already, they said it was an SP3 issue. I am going to install
> SP3 on those computers again and see if in fact they DO work now with SP3
> since updates were installed otherwise.
> --
> Duh-Oh!
>
>
> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>
> > gimpguy2000 wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, they were both fresh installs of XPpro.
> >
> > With SP2 included?
> >
> > > I did the EXPRESS update which
> > > installed SP3 and left no option for other updates after inspection. There
> > > were no other updates installed, I checked, plus no IE7 "which usually asks
> > > to install". This left it useless to get manual or auto updates. There are
> > > typically 99 updates to install and not a one save for WGA and SP3 got
> > > installed.
> >
> > Leaving aside IE7 for the moment, most (perhaps all) of those 99 updates are
> > included in SP3. (That's what the service pack is there for, after all!)
> >
> > Is there some specific update that you think is needed on SP3 that is not being
> > offered?
> >
> > (I believe there may still be some needed updates that haven't been revised to
> > deploy to SP3 via Windows Update yet, I hope this will be addressed shortly.)
> >
> > Now as to IE7 ... when SP3 was first released IE7 wasn't available for it.
> > However, it should be by now. Have you tried recently? Have you doublechecked
> > that you really are still running IE6?
> >
> > > So then I try windows live mail and
> > > messenger, would not install the services after numerous tries.
> >
> > You might have better luck with this particular issue on a Windows Live
> > newsgroup or forum. Sounds as if they haven't been updated to support SP3 yet.
> >
> > Harry.
> >