Lockup and Slowdown Problems after installing August Critical Updates

I am running SeaMonkey v1.1.11 and Quicken 2006 under Windows XP
Professional. The computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium D820 Dual-Core with 1GB
of RAM.

Up until about 6-8 months ago, when I would delete old email messages
from the trash folder in the SeaMonkey email/news reader, they would
disappear just about as fast as I could repeatedly hit the delete key.
Then something happened that slowed things down, and it would take about
half a second for each message to delete. I found this mildly annoying,
but didn't pursue the possible cause or solution. In retrospect, I think
it may have been something similar to what has now occurred.

This past Monday, I installed the Microsoft critical updates for August,
and also KB951748 from July. As usual, I waited until just before the
next batch of patches was due for release, as this usually gives
Microsoft time to correct glitches in the initial patch releases.

After installing the August patches, the display and deletion of
messages has slowed even more. It now takes 2-3 seconds for each message
to open, display, and/or delete in the email/news reader. Moreover, I
was having situations where SeaMonkey would lock up and I could not shut
it down without re-booting. I would look at it in TaskManager, and there
would be two instances of SeaMonkey running, both shown as not
responding. Neither would respond to a kill process request from
TaskManager. One activity that was causing this was attempting to login
to my Comcast email account. The login page would open with my stored
account ID and password, but when I clicked on login the program would
freeze. I may have been doing this before the page was fully loaded, but
not certain on this. I also experienced a lockup problem with Quicken 2006.

I uninstalled the August Microsoft Critical Updates and also KB951748.
This stopped both of the lockup problems, but it did not fix the
slowdown problem with email messages. I also re-installed SeaMonkey
v1.1.11, but this didn't help either.

Has anyone else noticed these sorts of problems? Is there a known
solution? Thanks!

John
--
Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true
email address to prevent spam. Thank you.

PA
Sun Sep 14 13:07:51 PDT 2008

Start a free Windows Update support incident request:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=6527
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

John wrote:
> I am running SeaMonkey v1.1.11 and Quicken 2006 under Windows XP
> Professional. The computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium D820 Dual-Core with 1GB
> of RAM.
>
> Up until about 6-8 months ago, when I would delete old email messages
> from the trash folder in the SeaMonkey email/news reader, they would
> disappear just about as fast as I could repeatedly hit the delete key.
> Then something happened that slowed things down, and it would take about
> half a second for each message to delete. I found this mildly annoying,
> but didn't pursue the possible cause or solution. In retrospect, I think
> it may have been something similar to what has now occurred.
>
> This past Monday, I installed the Microsoft critical updates for August,
> and also KB951748 from July. As usual, I waited until just before the
> next batch of patches was due for release, as this usually gives
> Microsoft time to correct glitches in the initial patch releases.
>
> After installing the August patches, the display and deletion of
> messages has slowed even more. It now takes 2-3 seconds for each message
> to open, display, and/or delete in the email/news reader. Moreover, I
> was having situations where SeaMonkey would lock up and I could not shut
> it down without re-booting. I would look at it in TaskManager, and there
> would be two instances of SeaMonkey running, both shown as not
> responding. Neither would respond to a kill process request from
> TaskManager. One activity that was causing this was attempting to login
> to my Comcast email account. The login page would open with my stored
> account ID and password, but when I clicked on login the program would
> freeze. I may have been doing this before the page was fully loaded, but
> not certain on this. I also experienced a lockup problem with Quicken
> 2006.
>
> I uninstalled the August Microsoft Critical Updates and also KB951748.
> This stopped both of the lockup problems, but it did not fix the
> slowdown problem with email messages. I also re-installed SeaMonkey
> v1.1.11, but this didn't help either.
>
> Has anyone else noticed these sorts of problems? Is there a known
> solution? Thanks!
>
> John

Mike
Sun Oct 26 00:47:01 PDT 2008

I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under XPpro
with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from email to
email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the point where I
would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?

Thanks
Mike


"John" wrote:

> I am running SeaMonkey v1.1.11 and Quicken 2006 under Windows XP
> Professional. The computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium D820 Dual-Core with 1GB
> of RAM.
>
> Up until about 6-8 months ago, when I would delete old email messages
> from the trash folder in the SeaMonkey email/news reader, they would
> disappear just about as fast as I could repeatedly hit the delete key.
> Then something happened that slowed things down, and it would take about
> half a second for each message to delete. I found this mildly annoying,
> but didn't pursue the possible cause or solution. In retrospect, I think
> it may have been something similar to what has now occurred.
>
> This past Monday, I installed the Microsoft critical updates for August,
> and also KB951748 from July. As usual, I waited until just before the
> next batch of patches was due for release, as this usually gives
> Microsoft time to correct glitches in the initial patch releases.
>
> After installing the August patches, the display and deletion of
> messages has slowed even more. It now takes 2-3 seconds for each message
> to open, display, and/or delete in the email/news reader. Moreover, I
> was having situations where SeaMonkey would lock up and I could not shut
> it down without re-booting. I would look at it in TaskManager, and there
> would be two instances of SeaMonkey running, both shown as not
> responding. Neither would respond to a kill process request from
> TaskManager. One activity that was causing this was attempting to login
> to my Comcast email account. The login page would open with my stored
> account ID and password, but when I clicked on login the program would
> freeze. I may have been doing this before the page was fully loaded, but
> not certain on this. I also experienced a lockup problem with Quicken 2006.
>
> I uninstalled the August Microsoft Critical Updates and also KB951748.
> This stopped both of the lockup problems, but it did not fix the
> slowdown problem with email messages. I also re-installed SeaMonkey
> v1.1.11, but this didn't help either.
>
> Has anyone else noticed these sorts of problems? Is there a known
> solution? Thanks!
>
> John
> --
> Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true
> email address to prevent spam. Thank you.
>

Mike
Sun Oct 26 01:13:02 PDT 2008

I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under XPpro
with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from email to
email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the point where I
would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?

Thanks
Mike


"John" wrote:

> I am running SeaMonkey v1.1.11 and Quicken 2006 under Windows XP
> Professional. The computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium D820 Dual-Core with 1GB
> of RAM.
>
> Up until about 6-8 months ago, when I would delete old email messages
> from the trash folder in the SeaMonkey email/news reader, they would
> disappear just about as fast as I could repeatedly hit the delete key.
> Then something happened that slowed things down, and it would take about
> half a second for each message to delete. I found this mildly annoying,
> but didn't pursue the possible cause or solution. In retrospect, I think
> it may have been something similar to what has now occurred.
>
> This past Monday, I installed the Microsoft critical updates for August,
> and also KB951748 from July. As usual, I waited until just before the
> next batch of patches was due for release, as this usually gives
> Microsoft time to correct glitches in the initial patch releases.
>
> After installing the August patches, the display and deletion of
> messages has slowed even more. It now takes 2-3 seconds for each message
> to open, display, and/or delete in the email/news reader. Moreover, I
> was having situations where SeaMonkey would lock up and I could not shut
> it down without re-booting. I would look at it in TaskManager, and there
> would be two instances of SeaMonkey running, both shown as not
> responding. Neither would respond to a kill process request from
> TaskManager. One activity that was causing this was attempting to login
> to my Comcast email account. The login page would open with my stored
> account ID and password, but when I clicked on login the program would
> freeze. I may have been doing this before the page was fully loaded, but
> not certain on this. I also experienced a lockup problem with Quicken 2006.
>
> I uninstalled the August Microsoft Critical Updates and also KB951748.
> This stopped both of the lockup problems, but it did not fix the
> slowdown problem with email messages. I also re-installed SeaMonkey
> v1.1.11, but this didn't help either.
>
> Has anyone else noticed these sorts of problems? Is there a known
> solution? Thanks!
>
> John
> --
> Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true
> email address to prevent spam. Thank you.
>

Harry
Sun Oct 26 16:42:29 PDT 2008

Mike wrote:

> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under XPpro
> with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from email to
> email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the point where I
> would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?

Do you have AVG antivirus?

Harry.

Mike
Tue Oct 28 18:31:00 PDT 2008

Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?


"Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:

> Mike wrote:
>
> > I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under XPpro
> > with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from email to
> > email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the point where I
> > would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>
> Do you have AVG antivirus?
>
> Harry.
>

Harry
Tue Oct 28 19:49:44 PDT 2008

Mike wrote:

> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?

The AVG-related issues we're aware of don't affect the free version, AFAIK.
However I believe the latest version is v8, so perhaps the older version isn't
supported any more? Might be worth checking on AVG's web site to see if there
are any known issues at present related to your version.

Harry.

> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under XPpro
>>> with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from email to
>>> email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the point where I
>>> would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>> Do you have AVG antivirus?

PA
Tue Oct 28 20:15:06 PDT 2008

Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking of
pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.

BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
Aug-08.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Mike wrote:
> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
>
>> Mike wrote:
>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under
>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
>>> point
>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>>
> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>> Do you have AVG antivirus?

Mike
Wed Oct 29 11:46:28 PDT 2008

Thanks, PA Bear!

I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when AVG
required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed that
AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.

I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system changes
made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be the MS
security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs the MS
patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.

Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer, another
MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a conflict
with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So I
don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches before
releasing them to us, their customers.

I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so maybe
I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not been
filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".

Am I up another blind alley here?

Thanks for your response

___Mike



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking of
> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
>
> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
> Aug-08.
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>
> Mike wrote:
> > Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
> >
> >> Mike wrote:
> >>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under
> >>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
> >>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
> >>> point
> >>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
> >>
> > "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
> >> Do you have AVG antivirus?
>
>

Harry
Wed Oct 29 14:33:28 PDT 2008

Mike wrote:

> I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system changes
> made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be the MS
> security downloads, [...]

The reason I asked about AVG is that apparently they released a faulty update at
almost exactly the same time as the latest MS update - and since antivirus
updates generally install silently, I guess folk didn't know about it and
(reasonably enough) thought the MS update was at fault. As you aren't using AVG
Pro, you aren't affected by the known issue.

> Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer, another
> MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a conflict
> with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall.

I think you're thinking of Zone Alarm and SP3, and on that occasion it was quite
definitely Zone Alarm's fault.

Have you tried uninstalling the August updates and seeing if the problem goes
away? If you can narrow it down to a single update that would be useful; I
suspect you'll find it has no effect, in which case the MS updates aren't likely
to be the problem and you should look at third-party products such as AVG.

Might also be worth trying an uninstall/reinstall of SeaMonkey, if that's the
only program you're having trouble with.

Harry.

PA
Wed Oct 29 16:25:16 PDT 2008

> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time...

Support for AVG Free v7.5 ended on 31 August 2008, Mike, although it may
still be functional on your machine.

On 26 Oct-08, you posted a "Me, too!" reply to a thread pertaining to the
updates released in Aug-08 (see subject) as well as one update (KB951748)
released in Jul-08. Do these same updates (i.e., not the Sept-08 or Oct-08
updates) coincide with the beginning of your SeaMonkey v1.1.12 issues? If
not, you'd be much better off if you'd started a new thread about your
issues.

That being said, what ZA application *and* version might you be running
(e.g., ZA Free v7.0.482.000; ZA Pro v6.5.737.000)?

> ...I don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
> before
> releasing them to us, their customers.

That's a sore subject here, Mike. In fact, it's up to the vendors (e.g.,
AVG/Grisoft; ZA/CheckPoint) to make sure their software is compatible to
fully-patched Windows versions. MS even has a program related to this:

Microsoft Active Protections Program:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/overview.mspx

While CheckPoint is, in fact, a MAPP participant, Grisoft isn't yet:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/partners.mspx

I will point out that CheckPoint quickly made a "fix" available for its
customers which addressed issues related to KB951748:
http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/pressReleases/2008/LossOfInternetAccessIssue.html
--
~PA Bear

Mike wrote:
> Thanks, PA Bear!
>
> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when AVG
> required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed that
> AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.
>
> I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system changes
> made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be the
> MS
> security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs the
> MS
> patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.
>
> Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer, another
> MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a
> conflict
> with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So I
> don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
> before
> releasing them to us, their customers.
>
> I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so
> maybe
> I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not
> been
> filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
> notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".
>
> Am I up another blind alley here?
>
> Thanks for your response
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking
>> of
>> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
>>
>> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
>> Aug-08.
>> --
>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
>>>
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under
>>>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
>>>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
>>>>> point
>>>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>>>>
>>> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>>>> Do you have AVG antivirus?

Mike
Thu Oct 30 16:34:01 PDT 2008

Thank you, Harry

"Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:

> Mike wrote:
>
> > I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system changes
> > made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be the MS
> > security downloads, [...]
>
> The reason I asked about AVG is that apparently they released a faulty update at
> almost exactly the same time as the latest MS update - and since antivirus
> updates generally install silently, I guess folk didn't know about it and
> (reasonably enough) thought the MS update was at fault. As you aren't using AVG
> Pro, you aren't affected by the known issue.
>
> > Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer, another
> > MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a conflict
> > with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall.
>
> I think you're thinking of Zone Alarm and SP3, and on that occasion it was quite
> definitely Zone Alarm's fault.
>
> Have you tried uninstalling the August updates and seeing if the problem goes
> away? If you can narrow it down to a single update that would be useful; I
> suspect you'll find it has no effect, in which case the MS updates aren't likely
> to be the problem and you should look at third-party products such as AVG.

This sounds like a good idea. How do I identify "August updates"? Each
update merely says "Security Update for Windows XP..." and "installed on
[date], and since I install them later, I don't know which is which. Could I
just start at the bottom (most recent) and work my way up? And then
reinstall the ones that have no effect/improvement? Is this the best
procedure?

> Might also be worth trying an uninstall/reinstall of SeaMonkey, if that's the
> only program you're having trouble with.

I have tried reinstalling SM over itself, to no avail. I just a moment ago
read in another helpsite that SM's profile causes 95% of all SMs problems,
and the profile folder is apart from the program folder and therefore, not
disturbed by uninstalling and reinstalling.

> Harry.
>
Mike

Mike
Thu Oct 30 16:50:00 PDT 2008

Thank you, PA Bear

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> > I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time...
>
> Support for AVG Free v7.5 ended on 31 August 2008, Mike, although it may
> still be functional on your machine.
>
> On 26 Oct-08, you posted a "Me, too!" reply to a thread pertaining to the
> updates released in Aug-08 (see subject) as well as one update (KB951748)
> released in Jul-08. Do these same updates (i.e., not the Sept-08 or Oct-08
> updates) coincide with the beginning of your SeaMonkey v1.1.12 issues? If
> not, you'd be much better off if you'd started a new thread about your
> issues.
>
> That being said, what ZA application *and* version might you be running
> (e.g., ZA Free v7.0.482.000; ZA Pro v6.5.737.000)?

ZAF 7.0.483.000

> > ...I don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
> > before
> > releasing them to us, their customers.
>
> That's a sore subject here, Mike. In fact, it's up to the vendors (e.g.,
> AVG/Grisoft; ZA/CheckPoint) to make sure their software is compatible to
> fully-patched Windows versions. MS even has a program related to this:
>
> Microsoft Active Protections Program:
> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/overview.mspx
>
> While CheckPoint is, in fact, a MAPP participant, Grisoft isn't yet:
> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/partners.mspx
>
> I will point out that CheckPoint quickly made a "fix" available for its
> customers which addressed issues related to KB951748:
> http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/pressReleases/2008/LossOfInternetAccessIssue.html
> --

Sorry about my comment, these computer problems are so frustrating.
When I posted the "me too" the fact pattern seemed identical to what I was
experiencing, and the only other system changes were "normal" updates for
AVG, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Could one of them have snuck in a system
update that put me in DLL hell? Sure. Do all software vendors make unknown
changes to systems without permission or explaining it? Sure. So I go thru
this exercise several times a year even without knowingly committing any
sin...haha

> ~PA Bear
>
> Mike wrote:
> > Thanks, PA Bear!
> >
> > I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when AVG
> > required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed that
> > AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.
> >
> > I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system changes
> > made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be the
> > MS
> > security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs the
> > MS
> > patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.
> >
> > Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer, another
> > MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a
> > conflict
> > with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So I
> > don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
> > before
> > releasing them to us, their customers.
> >
> > I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so
> > maybe
> > I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not
> > been
> > filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
> > notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".
> >
> > Am I up another blind alley here?
> >
> > Thanks for your response
> >
> > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
> >> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking
> >> of
> >> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
> >>
> >> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
> >> Aug-08.
> >> --
> >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> >> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
> >>
> >> Mike wrote:
> >>> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
> >>>
> >>>> Mike wrote:
> >>>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12 under
> >>>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
> >>>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
> >>>>> point
> >>>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
> >>>>
> >>> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
> >>>> Do you have AVG antivirus?
>
>

PA
Thu Oct 30 17:35:54 PDT 2008

Repost: Did your SeaMonkey problems only start after installing the Aug-08
(not Sept-08; not Oct-08) updates?

AFAIK, nothing related to AVG Free, Spybot or SpywareBlaster should be
causing your SeaMonkey issues. (Again, remember that AVG Free v7.5 is no
longer supported so YMMV.)

Is AVG Free 7.5 configured to scan incoming and outgoing mail?

Mike wrote:
> Thank you, PA Bear
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>
>>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time...
>>
>> Support for AVG Free v7.5 ended on 31 August 2008, Mike, although it may
>> still be functional on your machine.
>>
>> On 26 Oct-08, you posted a "Me, too!" reply to a thread pertaining to the
>> updates released in Aug-08 (see subject) as well as one update (KB951748)
>> released in Jul-08. Do these same updates (i.e., not the Sept-08 or
>> Oct-08
>> updates) coincide with the beginning of your SeaMonkey v1.1.12 issues?
>> If
>> not, you'd be much better off if you'd started a new thread about your
>> issues.
>>
>> That being said, what ZA application *and* version might you be running
>> (e.g., ZA Free v7.0.482.000; ZA Pro v6.5.737.000)?
>
> ZAF 7.0.483.000
>
>>> ...I don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security
>>> patches
>>> before
>>> releasing them to us, their customers.
>>
>> That's a sore subject here, Mike. In fact, it's up to the vendors (e.g.,
>> AVG/Grisoft; ZA/CheckPoint) to make sure their software is compatible to
>> fully-patched Windows versions. MS even has a program related to this:
>>
>> Microsoft Active Protections Program:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/overview.mspx
>>
>> While CheckPoint is, in fact, a MAPP participant, Grisoft isn't yet:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/partners.mspx
>>
>> I will point out that CheckPoint quickly made a "fix" available for its
>> customers which addressed issues related to KB951748:
>> http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/pressReleases/2008/LossOfInternetAccessIssue.html
>> --
>
> Sorry about my comment, these computer problems are so frustrating.
> When I posted the "me too" the fact pattern seemed identical to what I was
> experiencing, and the only other system changes were "normal" updates for
> AVG, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Could one of them have snuck in a
> system update that put me in DLL hell? Sure. Do all software vendors
> make
> unknown changes to systems without permission or explaining it? Sure. So
> I go thru this exercise several times a year even without knowingly
> committing any sin...haha
>
>> ~PA Bear
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>> Thanks, PA Bear!
>>>
>>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when
>>> AVG
>>> required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed
>>> that
>>> AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.
>>>
>>> I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system
>>> changes
>>> made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be
>>> the
>>> MS
>>> security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs the
>>> MS
>>> patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.
>>>
>>> Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer,
>>> another
>>> MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a
>>> conflict
>>> with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So I
>>> don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
>>> before
>>> releasing them to us, their customers.
>>>
>>> I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so
>>> maybe
>>> I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not
>>> been
>>> filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
>>> notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".
>>>
>>> Am I up another blind alley here?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your response
>>>
>>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>>>> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking
>>>> of
>>>> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
>>>> Aug-08.
>>>> --
>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>>>
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
>>>>>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>>>>>>
>>>>> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>>>>>> Do you have AVG antivirus?

Mike
Thu Oct 30 18:58:08 PDT 2008

Thanks, PA Bear

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> Repost: Did your SeaMonkey problems only start after installing the Aug-08
> (not Sept-08; not Oct-08) updates?

I don't know which ones are "Aug-08". I have installed on dates of 08/14,
9/10 and 10/25. I still have not installed SP3 out of concern re more lost
time.

> AFAIK, nothing related to AVG Free, Spybot or SpywareBlaster should be
> causing your SeaMonkey issues. (Again, remember that AVG Free v7.5 is no
> longer supported so YMMV.)

OK, and AVG is still updating the definition files, AFAIK. I had installed
AVG v8 shortly after it came out, but it caused so many problems, i
uninstalled it and went back to AVG 7.5.

> Is AVG Free 7.5 configured to scan incoming and outgoing mail?

Yes, incoming and outgoing, with "certify mail" also checked under both; and
"use heuristic analysis" checked too.

> Mike wrote:
> > Thank you, PA Bear
> >
> > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time...
> >>
> >> Support for AVG Free v7.5 ended on 31 August 2008, Mike, although it may
> >> still be functional on your machine.
> >>
> >> On 26 Oct-08, you posted a "Me, too!" reply to a thread pertaining to the
> >> updates released in Aug-08 (see subject) as well as one update (KB951748)
> >> released in Jul-08. Do these same updates (i.e., not the Sept-08 or
> >> Oct-08
> >> updates) coincide with the beginning of your SeaMonkey v1.1.12 issues?
> >> If
> >> not, you'd be much better off if you'd started a new thread about your
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> That being said, what ZA application *and* version might you be running
> >> (e.g., ZA Free v7.0.482.000; ZA Pro v6.5.737.000)?
> >
> > ZAF 7.0.483.000
> >
> >>> ...I don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security
> >>> patches
> >>> before
> >>> releasing them to us, their customers.
> >>
> >> That's a sore subject here, Mike. In fact, it's up to the vendors (e.g.,
> >> AVG/Grisoft; ZA/CheckPoint) to make sure their software is compatible to
> >> fully-patched Windows versions. MS even has a program related to this:
> >>
> >> Microsoft Active Protections Program:
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/overview.mspx
> >>
> >> While CheckPoint is, in fact, a MAPP participant, Grisoft isn't yet:
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/partners.mspx
> >>
> >> I will point out that CheckPoint quickly made a "fix" available for its
> >> customers which addressed issues related to KB951748:
> >> http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/pressReleases/2008/LossOfInternetAccessIssue.html
> >> --
> >
> > Sorry about my comment, these computer problems are so frustrating.
> > When I posted the "me too" the fact pattern seemed identical to what I was
> > experiencing, and the only other system changes were "normal" updates for
> > AVG, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Could one of them have snuck in a
> > system update that put me in DLL hell? Sure. Do all software vendors
> > make
> > unknown changes to systems without permission or explaining it? Sure. So
> > I go thru this exercise several times a year even without knowingly
> > committing any sin...haha
> >
> >> ~PA Bear
> >>
> >> Mike wrote:
> >>> Thanks, PA Bear!
> >>>
> >>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when
> >>> AVG
> >>> required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed
> >>> that
> >>> AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.
> >>>
> >>> I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system
> >>> changes
> >>> made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be
> >>> the
> >>> MS
> >>> security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs the
> >>> MS
> >>> patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.
> >>>
> >>> Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer,
> >>> another
> >>> MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a
> >>> conflict
> >>> with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So I
> >>> don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
> >>> before
> >>> releasing them to us, their customers.
> >>>
> >>> I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so
> >>> maybe
> >>> I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not
> >>> been
> >>> filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
> >>> notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".
> >>>
> >>> Am I up another blind alley here?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your response
> >>>
> >>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
> >>>> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was thinking
> >>>> of
> >>>> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since 31
> >>>> Aug-08.
> >>>> --
> >>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> >>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike wrote:
> >>>>>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12
> >>>>>>> under
> >>>>>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving from
> >>>>>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to the
> >>>>>>> point
> >>>>>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
> >>>>>> Do you have AVG antivirus?
>
>

PA
Fri Oct 31 07:29:04 PDT 2008

=> Did your SeaMonkey issues start on 8/14, 9/10, or 10/25?

=> I would strongly advise disabling AVG's email scanning. It provides no
additional protection, it might be causing your problems, and even Symantec
says it's not necessary:

<QP>
Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions.
</QP>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2002111812533106

=> The current version of AVG Free 8.0 (v8.0.175) is causing no problems
whatsoever for the vast majority of users, including myself. There will
come a time in the very near future when AVG 7.5 will no longer update
automatically. If you wish to stick with AVG Free, here's my advice:

1. Download a fresh copy of the AVG Free 8.0 installer, saving it to your C:
drive (i.e, C:\avg_free_stf_en_8_175a1382.exe) =>
http://free.avg.com/ww.download?prd=afe or
http://www.grisoft.cz/filedir/inst/avg_free_stf_en_8_175a1382.exe

2. Uninstall AVG 7.5 via Add/Remove Programs & reboot.

NB: You're "working without a net" now: Don't to ANYTHING else online (e.g.,
browsing; reading email; chatting) until you've got AVG 8.0 installed,
properly configured, and updated!

3. Carefully follow these instructions to custom install AVG 8.0:
http://free.grisoft.com/ww.faq.num-1338

Tip: Do NOT install the toolbar (if offered) or either of the email
scanners.

4. Configure AVG as you wish via the User Interface: Tools | Advanced
settings.

5. Check for and install any available updates.

AVG Free Suport Forum
http://freeforum.avg.com/

=> Similarly, the vast majority of WinXP users have installed SP3 without
encountering any problems. You should be aware that come April 2010, you
will not receive any more Windows Updates unless SP3
is installed. With SP3 installed, you'll receive updates through 2014.

WinXP SP3 - Read all prerequisites for a successful installation
http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldron/archive/2008/05/08/windows-xp-sp3-read-all-prerequisites-for-a-successful-installation.aspx

Free unlimited installation and compatibility support is available for
Windows XP, but only for Service Pack 3 (SP3), until 14 Apr-09. Chat and
e-mail support is available only in the United States and Canada. Go to
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=1173 | select "Windows
XP" then select "Windows XP Service Pack 3"
--
~PA Bear

Mike wrote:
> Thanks, PA Bear
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Repost: Did your SeaMonkey problems only start after installing the
>> Aug-08
>> (not Sept-08; not Oct-08) updates?
>
> I don't know which ones are "Aug-08". I have installed on dates of 08/14,
> 9/10 and 10/25. I still have not installed SP3 out of concern re more
> lost
> time.
>
>> AFAIK, nothing related to AVG Free, Spybot or SpywareBlaster should be
>> causing your SeaMonkey issues. (Again, remember that AVG Free v7.5 is no
>> longer supported so YMMV.)
>
> OK, and AVG is still updating the definition files, AFAIK. I had
> installed
> AVG v8 shortly after it came out, but it caused so many problems, i
> uninstalled it and went back to AVG 7.5.
>
>> Is AVG Free 7.5 configured to scan incoming and outgoing mail?
>
> Yes, incoming and outgoing, with "certify mail" also checked under both;
> and
> "use heuristic analysis" checked too.
>
>> Mike wrote:
>>> Thank you, PA Bear
>>>
>>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time...
>>>>
>>>> Support for AVG Free v7.5 ended on 31 August 2008, Mike, although it
>>>> may
>>>> still be functional on your machine.
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Oct-08, you posted a "Me, too!" reply to a thread pertaining to
>>>> the
>>>> updates released in Aug-08 (see subject) as well as one update
>>>> (KB951748)
>>>> released in Jul-08. Do these same updates (i.e., not the Sept-08 or
>>>> Oct-08
>>>> updates) coincide with the beginning of your SeaMonkey v1.1.12 issues?
>>>> If
>>>> not, you'd be much better off if you'd started a new thread about your
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, what ZA application *and* version might you be running
>>>> (e.g., ZA Free v7.0.482.000; ZA Pro v6.5.737.000)?
>>>
>>> ZAF 7.0.483.000
>>>
>>>>> ...I don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security
>>>>> patches
>>>>> before
>>>>> releasing them to us, their customers.
>>>>
>>>> That's a sore subject here, Mike. In fact, it's up to the vendors
>>>> (e.g.,
>>>> AVG/Grisoft; ZA/CheckPoint) to make sure their software is compatible
>>>> to
>>>> fully-patched Windows versions. MS even has a program related to this:
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Active Protections Program:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/overview.mspx
>>>>
>>>> While CheckPoint is, in fact, a MAPP participant, Grisoft isn't yet:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/security/msrc/mapp/partners.mspx
>>>>
>>>> I will point out that CheckPoint quickly made a "fix" available for its
>>>> customers which addressed issues related to KB951748:
>>>> http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/pressReleases/2008/LossOfInternetAccessIssue.html
>>>> --
>>>
>>> Sorry about my comment, these computer problems are so frustrating.
>>> When I posted the "me too" the fact pattern seemed identical to what I
>>> was
>>> experiencing, and the only other system changes were "normal" updates
>>> for
>>> AVG, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Could one of them have snuck in a
>>> system update that put me in DLL hell? Sure. Do all software vendors
>>> make
>>> unknown changes to systems without permission or explaining it? Sure.
>>> So
>>> I go thru this exercise several times a year even without knowingly
>>> committing any sin...haha
>>>
>>>> ~PA Bear
>>>>
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, PA Bear!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have used AVG free v7.5 for a long time, and only updated last when
>>>>> AVG
>>>>> required, and had no system problems at that time....so I had assumed
>>>>> that
>>>>> AVG is not the culprit, or at least low on the suspect priority list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would reason that high on that suspect list would be all system
>>>>> changes
>>>>> made before the problem began, which, ipso facto, would/could only be
>>>>> the
>>>>> MS
>>>>> security downloads, and therefore when I saw John's posting re SM vs
>>>>> the
>>>>> MS
>>>>> patches, my hopes went up, but I see no resolution here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reinforcing this reasoning is the fact that, sometime last summer,
>>>>> another
>>>>> MS security update caused a loss of internet connectivity due to a
>>>>> conflict
>>>>> with another program...perhaps Zone Alarm or AVG, I cannot recall. So
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't think MS is very careful in vetting their own security patches
>>>>> before
>>>>> releasing them to us, their customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a bad day in court this morning, and it got worse at the IRS, so
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> I need to vent, but I seriously wonder why a class action suit has not
>>>>> been
>>>>> filed against MS for all this lost time due to defective software,
>>>>> notwithstanding their weasel worded license "contract of adhesion".
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I up another blind alley here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your response
>>>>>
>>>>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>>>>>> Not sure what Harry had in mind but I *think* the issue he was
>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> pertained only to paid versions of AVG v8.0, Mike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, AVG Free 7.5 hasn't been supported in any Windows version since
>>>>>> 31
>>>>>> Aug-08.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>>>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>>>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, AVG free v7.5. Is this a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I've had the same or very similar problem with SeaMonkey 1.1.12
>>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>>> XPpro with all the MS security updates, P4 3.0ghz. When moving
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> email to email, it hourglasses so much, it is unusable, even to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>> where I would say it is locking up. Could this be a conflict?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Harry Johnston [MVP]" wrote:
>>>>>>>> Do you have AVG antivirus?

Harry
Fri Oct 31 12:11:44 PDT 2008

Mike wrote:

>> Have you tried uninstalling the August updates and seeing if the problem goes
>> away? If you can narrow it down to a single update that would be useful; I
>> suspect you'll find it has no effect, in which case the MS updates aren't likely
>> to be the problem and you should look at third-party products such as AVG.
>
> This sounds like a good idea. How do I identify "August updates"? Each
> update merely says "Security Update for Windows XP..." and "installed on
> [date], and since I install them later, I don't know which is which. Could I
> just start at the bottom (most recent) and work my way up? And then
> reinstall the ones that have no effect/improvement? Is this the best
> procedure?

Yes. Remove the most recently installed first.

> I have tried reinstalling SM over itself, to no avail. I just a moment ago
> read in another helpsite that SM's profile causes 95% of all SMs problems,
> and the profile folder is apart from the program folder and therefore, not
> disturbed by uninstalling and reinstalling.

Worth trying a new profile then - keep the old one so if getting a new one
doesn't help you can revert.

Harry.