Removed floppy drive and PC slow

Recently removed floppy drive from PC without replacement. Since doing
so, PC is slow - sometimes painfully slow - on any hard disc file
operation.

When I removed it, I did take care to set CMOS to ''not installed'',
and boot start up to not look for FD, the primary boot device is HD,
then CDrom, then not to look for other devices. I can't remove the FD
controller as its on board motherboard (OK I can remove the software
device, but at next start up PC does a hardware detect and it gets
re-installed).

If i look in Control Pannel / System / Performance it tells me ''drive
A is using MDOS compatibility mode file system''. I know if I see that
for a hard drive it will impair performance, but should I be seeing
that for a removed floppy drive ?

In Explorer, drive A now appears as ''Removable Disk'' even though the
drive is not there. ''Removable Disk'' is exactly how a USB Flash Drive
appears when one is present (as drive E, F, etc.)

Re-installing the floppy drive removes the problem. Removing it again
the problem comes back.

I don't think this is a hardware problem, never seen it before on other
Windows versions.

Is there something else I should do ?

--
Nick

Alias~-
Tue Oct 10 07:37:38 CDT 2006

D7666 wrote:
> Recently removed floppy drive from PC without replacement. Since doing
> so, PC is slow - sometimes painfully slow - on any hard disc file
> operation.
>
> When I removed it, I did take care to set CMOS to ''not installed'',
> and boot start up to not look for FD, the primary boot device is HD,
> then CDrom, then not to look for other devices. I can't remove the FD
> controller as its on board motherboard (OK I can remove the software
> device, but at next start up PC does a hardware detect and it gets
> re-installed).
>
> If i look in Control Pannel / System / Performance it tells me ''drive
> A is using MDOS compatibility mode file system''. I know if I see that
> for a hard drive it will impair performance, but should I be seeing
> that for a removed floppy drive ?
>
> In Explorer, drive A now appears as ''Removable Disk'' even though the
> drive is not there. ''Removable Disk'' is exactly how a USB Flash Drive
> appears when one is present (as drive E, F, etc.)
>
> Re-installing the floppy drive removes the problem. Removing it again
> the problem comes back.
>
> I don't think this is a hardware problem, never seen it before on other
> Windows versions.
>
> Is there something else I should do ?
>
> --
> Nick
>

Why don't you want the floppy drive installed?

Alias

D7666
Tue Oct 10 08:02:00 CDT 2006


Alias~- wrote:

> Why don't you want the floppy drive installed?

Using drive bay for something else.

No other spare bay.

--
Nick

walter666
Tue Oct 10 08:16:26 CDT 2006

"Why don't you want the floppy drive installed?" --A most excellent
question.

If messing with something that doesn't need messing with, breaks it, leave
it alone, duh.

D7666
Tue Oct 10 10:03:40 CDT 2006


walter666 wrote:
> "Why don't you want the floppy drive installed?" --A most excellent
> question.
>
> If messing with something that doesn't need messing with, breaks it, leave
> it alone, duh.

Drive removed as need the drive bay for something else. It is
irrelevant what the something else is as I am proceeding step by step
as I always do with hardware, and the new device has not been installed
yet, so there is no influence from that.

Might I ask for some sensible suggestions concerning my problem, not
questioning why I am doing it.

--
Nick

walter666
Tue Oct 10 11:18:37 CDT 2006

Sensible suggestion (as requested): new computer with more drive bays.<g>

Heirloom
Tue Oct 10 11:38:10 CDT 2006

A most valid observation, Nick. Although, I cannot give you a defined
answer to the issue, I would be curious to know if the installation of the
new device would not correct the problem. As it would be simple enough to
go ahead with putting the new device in place (you could even set a restore
point to make it simple to return to your current configuration), it would
be worth a shot to see if it may overcome what you are seeing now. My
thoughts are that the removal of the floppy drive may have changed some
settings, i.e. disabling DMA or maybe a problem with IRQ.........

Your machine seems to be "seeing" the A:\ that is no longer there, that is
why I think that the installation of this "new device" may correct the
issue. Please know that I am no guru on this.....however, what I am
suggesting should, in no way, endanger your machine or cause any further
issues. Best wishes........
Heirloom, old and like my floppy

">
> Might I ask for some sensible suggestions concerning my problem, not
> questioning why I am doing it.
>
> --
> Nick
>

D7666
Tue Oct 10 12:25:50 CDT 2006


Heirloom wrote:

> settings, i.e. disabling DMA or maybe a problem with IRQ.........


Since my earlier posts, I have added the new hardware, and the problem
with respect to slow HD access remains.

An IRQ issue crossed my mind as well. I have never ever had a need to
touch IRQ settings on any PC although I'd have no qualms about doing so
if it could fix it once understanding how to do it and how to reverse
it if necessary.

I also thought about this - I have run laptops on ME where you have to
swap floppy drive with CDrom drive. Is there something in laptops that
allows to run with no floppy drive that is not present of a desktop ?

Another thought is - is there some kind of link or strap on the
motherboard to disable floppy drive completely ?

At the moment the only way out of this I can see is to re-install the
floppy drive inside the case, not in a bay, but lashed down with
blu-tak and cable ties. Completely inside the case and unaccessabe but
making it present to the system. A work around and not a solution
though.

--
Nick

Heirloom
Tue Oct 10 13:11:10 CDT 2006

As opposed to a makeshift installation of the floppy inside the case,
consider some extensions and place the drive outside of the case. Of
course, this would necessitate external wiring, but, the floppy would still
be useable, albeit, clumsy.

Another thought is to dl'd a system diagnostic program, i.e. SiSoft Sandra,
it may serve to more readily pinpoint your issue. The other option would be
to stand by until one of the hardware gurus spots this thread and may
provide a quick solution.
I have never run into a situation like this one. In addition to Sandra,
Everest is another good diagnostic/information tool (and I understand they
are offering a free version again, if not, I am sure the older free versions
are still available...do a Google search).

You may want to provide some info about your machine, i.e. mobo, HD's, cpu,
memory, etc., this may be helpful in determining what might be at fault.
Heirloom, old and grabbing for
straws

"D7666" <d7666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160501149.993956.264020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Heirloom wrote:
>
>> settings, i.e. disabling DMA or maybe a problem with IRQ.........
>
>
> Since my earlier posts, I have added the new hardware, and the problem
> with respect to slow HD access remains.
>
> An IRQ issue crossed my mind as well. I have never ever had a need to
> touch IRQ settings on any PC although I'd have no qualms about doing so
> if it could fix it once understanding how to do it and how to reverse
> it if necessary.
>
> I also thought about this - I have run laptops on ME where you have to
> swap floppy drive with CDrom drive. Is there something in laptops that
> allows to run with no floppy drive that is not present of a desktop ?
>
> Another thought is - is there some kind of link or strap on the
> motherboard to disable floppy drive completely ?
>
> At the moment the only way out of this I can see is to re-install the
> floppy drive inside the case, not in a bay, but lashed down with
> blu-tak and cable ties. Completely inside the case and unaccessabe but
> making it present to the system. A work around and not a solution
> though.
>
> --
> Nick
>

Mart
Tue Oct 10 19:34:47 CDT 2006

HL wrote :-

> I have never run into a situation like this one.

Nor me - but a tool which *may* help to localize the problem, especially if
it has become slow to boot-up too, is the good old 'Boot Log Analyser'
(Freeware) utility from :-
http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/pk29/
This will let you Inspect the bootlog.txt file in the root folder. It gives
the timings of all bootup events and may let you determine a possible cause.
Might be worth comparing with & without A: drive connected etc.

BTW - In spite of what it says, it also works on WinMe!!

Mart



"Heirloom" <roland58XX@XXcox.net> wrote in message
news:OUvlqaJ7GHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> As opposed to a makeshift installation of the floppy inside the case,
> consider some extensions and place the drive outside of the case. Of
> course, this would necessitate external wiring, but, the floppy would
> still be useable, albeit, clumsy.
>
> Another thought is to dl'd a system diagnostic program, i.e. SiSoft
> Sandra, it may serve to more readily pinpoint your issue. The other
> option would be to stand by until one of the hardware gurus spots this
> thread and may provide a quick solution.
> I have never run into a situation like this one. In addition to Sandra,
> Everest is another good diagnostic/information tool (and I understand they
> are offering a free version again, if not, I am sure the older free
> versions are still available...do a Google search).
>
> You may want to provide some info about your machine, i.e. mobo, HD's,
> cpu, memory, etc., this may be helpful in determining what might be at
> fault.
> Heirloom, old and grabbing for
> straws
>
> "D7666" <d7666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1160501149.993956.264020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Heirloom wrote:
>>
>>> settings, i.e. disabling DMA or maybe a problem with IRQ.........
>>
>>
>> Since my earlier posts, I have added the new hardware, and the problem
>> with respect to slow HD access remains.
>>
>> An IRQ issue crossed my mind as well. I have never ever had a need to
>> touch IRQ settings on any PC although I'd have no qualms about doing so
>> if it could fix it once understanding how to do it and how to reverse
>> it if necessary.
>>
>> I also thought about this - I have run laptops on ME where you have to
>> swap floppy drive with CDrom drive. Is there something in laptops that
>> allows to run with no floppy drive that is not present of a desktop ?
>>
>> Another thought is - is there some kind of link or strap on the
>> motherboard to disable floppy drive completely ?
>>
>> At the moment the only way out of this I can see is to re-install the
>> floppy drive inside the case, not in a bay, but lashed down with
>> blu-tak and cable ties. Completely inside the case and unaccessabe but
>> making it present to the system. A work around and not a solution
>> though.
>>
>> --
>> Nick
>>
>
>

D7666
Wed Oct 11 02:46:29 CDT 2006


Mart (NoSpam) wrote:
> HL wrote :-
>
> > I have never run into a situation like this one.
>
> Nor me - but a tool which *may*


Thanks I'll give that a try today or tomorrow.


I was searching the forum for any other hints, and I came across this
other question of mine back in June : ''Weird screen problem with MS
Reader on ME''

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsme.general/browse_frm/thread/c762f24ec7674dd2/074b5349f8a26baf?lnk=gst&q=d7666&rnum=1#074b5349f8a26baf

That is not resolved.

Interestingly ... its the same machine ... and its got a different,
formatted HD and newly installed ME from scratch, will updated drivers
as high as I can find, and still has the same MS Reader error.

Weird eh ?

Perhaps I should offer the machine up for science ?

--
Nick

D7666
Wed Oct 11 03:55:41 CDT 2006


D7666 wrote:
> Mart (NoSpam) wrote:
> > HL wrote :-
> >
> > > I have never run into a situation like this one.
> >
> > Nor me - but a tool which *may*

I forgot to add, boot appears normal.

Its doing file operations in Explorer, and applications start up that
are slowed.


--
Nick

Mart
Wed Oct 11 04:19:53 CDT 2006

D7666 wrote :-

> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.

Yes I suspected that may be the case - but it still *might* give you clues,
even if you only compare the two "with & without" bootlog.txt files just
using notepad. (You will have to force the the bootlog option each time, of
course using the Safe Mode starting menu.)

(Can't comment - yet - on the other issue, except to suggest that you look
in DevMan (both in Normal and Safe modes) for other clues.)

Mart



>
> D7666 wrote:
>> Mart (NoSpam) wrote:
>> > HL wrote :-
>> >
>> > > I have never run into a situation like this one.
>> >
>> > Nor me - but a tool which *may*
>
> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.
>
> Its doing file operations in Explorer, and applications start up that
> are slowed.
>
>
> --
> Nick
>

Heirloom
Wed Oct 11 16:56:10 CDT 2006

Another excellent proggie that may shed some light on your issue is Process
Explorer by Sysinternals. I think it may be a $$$ program now, but, the
older versions should be available. In case something is eating your cpu
cycles, this would pinpoint it very quickly. Even if this is not the case,
this app is great to have for numerous reasons! It will show every
application that is running, not just the ones Windows wants you to see, to
include background apps and you can see how much cpu in % is being used by
each app in real time.
Heirloom, old and like my PE


"Mart" <mart(NoSpam)@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:uwpOqZR7GHA.1256@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> D7666 wrote :-
>
>> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.
>
> Yes I suspected that may be the case - but it still *might* give you
> clues, even if you only compare the two "with & without" bootlog.txt files
> just using notepad. (You will have to force the the bootlog option each
> time, of course using the Safe Mode starting menu.)
>
> (Can't comment - yet - on the other issue, except to suggest that you look
> in DevMan (both in Normal and Safe modes) for other clues.)
>
> Mart
>
>
>
>>
>> D7666 wrote:
>>> Mart (NoSpam) wrote:
>>> > HL wrote :-
>>> >
>>> > > I have never run into a situation like this one.
>>> >
>>> > Nor me - but a tool which *may*
>>
>> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.
>>
>> Its doing file operations in Explorer, and applications start up that
>> are slowed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nick
>>
>
>

Mart
Wed Oct 11 18:31:44 CDT 2006

Good one HL - and, as another equivalent(ish) MS tool, Nick could also try
using WinTop, part of the old MS Kernel Toys, to determine running processes
(and cpu usage). It works fine on WinMe and he can download it from :-
http://www.dewassoc.com/support/useful/wintop.htm

Mart


"Heirloom" <roland58XX@XXcox.net> wrote in message
news:uSV1B9X7GHA.3812@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Another excellent proggie that may shed some light on your issue is
> Process Explorer by Sysinternals. I think it may be a $$$ program now,
> but, the older versions should be available. In case something is eating
> your cpu cycles, this would pinpoint it very quickly. Even if this is not
> the case, this app is great to have for numerous reasons! It will show
> every application that is running, not just the ones Windows wants you to
> see, to include background apps and you can see how much cpu in % is being
> used by each app in real time.
> Heirloom, old and like my PE
>
>
> "Mart" <mart(NoSpam)@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:uwpOqZR7GHA.1256@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> D7666 wrote :-
>>
>>> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.
>>
>> Yes I suspected that may be the case - but it still *might* give you
>> clues, even if you only compare the two "with & without" bootlog.txt
>> files just using notepad. (You will have to force the the bootlog option
>> each time, of course using the Safe Mode starting menu.)
>>
>> (Can't comment - yet - on the other issue, except to suggest that you
>> look in DevMan (both in Normal and Safe modes) for other clues.)
>>
>> Mart
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> D7666 wrote:
>>>> Mart (NoSpam) wrote:
>>>> > HL wrote :-
>>>> >
>>>> > > I have never run into a situation like this one.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nor me - but a tool which *may*
>>>
>>> I forgot to add, boot appears normal.
>>>
>>> Its doing file operations in Explorer, and applications start up that
>>> are slowed.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Justin
Thu Oct 12 11:08:12 CDT 2006


"Heirloom" <roland58XX@XXcox.net> wrote in message
news:uSV1B9X7GHA.3812@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: Another excellent proggie that may shed some light on your issue is
Process
: Explorer by Sysinternals. I think it may be a $$$ program now, but, the
: older versions should be available. In case something is eating your cpu
: cycles, this would pinpoint it very quickly. Even if this is not the
case,
: this app is great to have for numerous reasons! It will show every
: application that is running, not just the ones Windows wants you to see,
to
: include background apps and you can see how much cpu in % is being used by
: each app in real time.
: Heirloom, old and like my PE

<Remainder snipped>

Process Explorer provides me with more information than I am capable of
comprehending, therefore it must be an excellent program! (And it is,
indeed.)

Most recent version is 10.2, released July 10, and is still free for the
asking.

For those who have not yet experienced Process Explorer here's a link that
will take you there directly:

http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html

Ken Bland

Heirloom
Thu Oct 12 11:22:55 CDT 2006

Thanks for filling in the blanks, Ken.........I should have posted the link,
my bad.
Heirloom, old and always forgets
something


"Justin Thyme" <Ken_Bland@Mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:exwLMih7GHA.4408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> "Heirloom" <roland58XX@XXcox.net> wrote in message
> news:uSV1B9X7GHA.3812@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> : Another excellent proggie that may shed some light on your issue is
> Process
> : Explorer by Sysinternals. I think it may be a $$$ program now, but,
> the
> : older versions should be available. In case something is eating your
> cpu
> : cycles, this would pinpoint it very quickly. Even if this is not the
> case,
> : this app is great to have for numerous reasons! It will show every
> : application that is running, not just the ones Windows wants you to see,
> to
> : include background apps and you can see how much cpu in % is being used
> by
> : each app in real time.
> : Heirloom, old and like my PE
>
> <Remainder snipped>
>
> Process Explorer provides me with more information than I am capable of
> comprehending, therefore it must be an excellent program! (And it is,
> indeed.)
>
> Most recent version is 10.2, released July 10, and is still free for the
> asking.
>
> For those who have not yet experienced Process Explorer here's a link that
> will take you there directly:
>
> http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html
>
> Ken Bland
>
>

Justin
Thu Oct 12 14:45:39 CDT 2006


"Heirloom" <roland58XX@XXcox.net> wrote in message
news:%23Aeudnh7GHA.3396@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
: Thanks for filling in the blanks, Ken.........I should have posted the
link,
: my bad.
: Heirloom, old and always forgets
: something
:
:
No problem, my friend.

I once heard a quip from Bill Cosby. Someone said, "Mr. Cosby, you really
should give some thought to the Hereafter." Mr. Cosby replied, "Oh, I do, I
do. Often when I go into a room I ask myself, 'What am I here after?'"

This happens to me once in a while (strike that), occasionally (strike that
one), rather frequently (no, that's still not it), all the time (now you've
got it!)

Ken Bland

D7666
Fri Oct 13 06:10:10 CDT 2006

Thanks for all the hints.

But I have had to blitz the problem as I need urgently to get on with
using the new hardware. The PC was simply too slow running.

Today I have done a HD format and new ME install from boot install CD
with no floppy drive present and CMOS at ''not installed''. The ME
installation process still prompted me to make a boot floppy but I
skipped over it (I have one anyway for thjis machine) which suggests it
is not detected hardware at this stage.

On completion, HD operations appear now to run at normal speed, and
I've done quite a lot of tests on that. Control Panel / System /
Performance still tells me ''drive A is using MDOS compatibility mode
file system'' and Explorer still has a drive A ''Removable Disk'' but
for now I can live with these.

I don't really like doing this to fix a problem. It is very much like
the ''IT'' department at work who respond to everything they can't
answer with ''format and re-install'' and never actually find out what
the fault is leaving little confidence it won't come back.

I consider it a work around and not a solution , and it does not help
anyone else in the future who might find the same fault.

I do need to press on with using this PC for now - I will try and get
back to this again and see if I can reproduce later.

(( Oh yes - after the ME re-install the other problem does remain with
MS Reader. ))

Thanks again.

--
Nick

Mart
Fri Oct 13 07:04:56 CDT 2006

Nick wrote :-

> I don't really like doing this to fix a problem ..
> ... never actually find out what the fault is ..

I know what you mean. - But when expediency rules .. and it can save you a
lot of time from going up blind alleys ... <g>

Regarding your MS Reader issue, IIRC there was an inverted image problem
and/or something to do with a new LCD monitor. Then I guess that it points
it back to a driver issue and/or an incompatibility issue with MS Reader.
Doesn't necessarily nail it to the WinMe mast - at least, not yet!

I suppose the fact that you are obviously using an OEM (i.e. bootable CD)
version of WinMe rules some of us out in helping you further in that
direction due to supplied drivers and possible tailor-made OEM modifications
etc.

Please keep us informed of any progress - good luck

Mart



"D7666" <d7666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160737809.990992.212240@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for all the hints.
>
> But I have had to blitz the problem as I need urgently to get on with
> using the new hardware. The PC was simply too slow running.
>
> Today I have done a HD format and new ME install from boot install CD
> with no floppy drive present and CMOS at ''not installed''. The ME
> installation process still prompted me to make a boot floppy but I
> skipped over it (I have one anyway for thjis machine) which suggests it
> is not detected hardware at this stage.
>
> On completion, HD operations appear now to run at normal speed, and
> I've done quite a lot of tests on that. Control Panel / System /
> Performance still tells me ''drive A is using MDOS compatibility mode
> file system'' and Explorer still has a drive A ''Removable Disk'' but
> for now I can live with these.
>
> I don't really like doing this to fix a problem. It is very much like
> the ''IT'' department at work who respond to everything they can't
> answer with ''format and re-install'' and never actually find out what
> the fault is leaving little confidence it won't come back.
>
> I consider it a work around and not a solution , and it does not help
> anyone else in the future who might find the same fault.
>
> I do need to press on with using this PC for now - I will try and get
> back to this again and see if I can reproduce later.
>
> (( Oh yes - after the ME re-install the other problem does remain with
> MS Reader. ))
>
> Thanks again.
>
> --
> Nick
>

D7666
Fri Oct 13 07:41:57 CDT 2006


Mart (NoSpam) wrote:

> Regarding your MS Reader issue, IIRC there was an inverted image problem
> and/or something to do with a new LCD monitor.


Yes, it was from myself, exactly right, mirror image.


> it back to a driver issue and/or an incompatibility issue with MS Reader.

I am sure. There be nothing remotely resembling such a problem in the
microsoft knowledge base.

I have the latest drivers from the monitor maker - and for video
adapter as well just in case.

Answer from the monitor maker was ''upgrade to XP'' and then we'll look
at it.

--
Nick