Shane
Sun Jun 11 06:41:07 CDT 2006
John,
The point about having a firewall on dial-up is to be notified of malware
already installed attempting to phone home. Mostly we're talking spyware, to
a degree we're talking trojans and to a degree over-intrusive components of
the Operating System and/or otherwise trusted (sic) programs. The easiest
way to achieve such notification is by running a firewall - especially if
we're talking about hitherto unknown programs and those which are so
borderline as to be excluded from the protection of anti-spyware/anti-trojan
definitions if for no other than fear of legal action.
In many cases otherwise desirable software can be configured *not* to phone
home, but for most people this is far more work (and therefore won't get
done) than simply running a firewall. Basically every installed program's
configuration options need examining with a fine toothed comb (including
native Windows ones!), as opposed to only those that need to be. And, as
noted, not all programs have the option of turning spying off, and not all
show up in Add/Remove Programs, so it's a lot of largely-unnecessary work
that's somewhat less than 100% guaranteed, even if it does get done.
Statistically-speaking more new-users will wise up to privacy-stealing
software if the moment it attempts to phone home they are informed, than if
it happens invisibly. In an ideal world they'll have been taught from the
outset to avoid the many rogue applications (including rogue, pay-for
anti-spyware!), taught from the outset to practice 'Safe Hex' - but in the
real world what is needed is a timely wake-up call rather than an
after-the-fact one.
In my case, as a newbie I installed a widely-recommended program - PKZip for
Windows. Because I'd also installed Zone Alarm, I was notified that tsadbot
wanted to access the internet. So I researched tsadbot and learned about
spyware and haven't had anything undesired phoning home in the 6 yrs since,
initially because I installed anti-spyware solely on the strength of this.
Okay, relatively-few will research the likes of tsadbot - an unfortunately
large no. would simply click 'Allow', but the presence of the firewall makes
it more likely a savvy friend or relative will notice rogue software
running. And anyway, obviously, if only one-in-a-thousand do as I did it's
better than none at all!
Spyware doesn't seek broadband connected machines in preference to those on
dial-up, of course. And your recommendations may apply to those who read
them, but not one or two passed on, out of context, to those who may never
even visit your site, let alone read everything and understand your 'geek'
reasoning. Like posting in these groups addressing the issues of a single
poster, one should bear in mind that a good deal more are reading one's
suggestions.
Here a recommendation to use tweakui will include warning of what settings
to avoid selecting, even if one knows the OP his/her-self already knows
this. If one posts a suggestion involving registry-editing, one includes a
warning to back it up first, for others who do not know as much as the OP
will see the post.
If you write a 10,000 word piece explaining why you needn't bother with a
firewall, it will be reduced to a one-liner and spread far and wide. It will
be seized upon by those who want to believe they're safe.
Here comes the crackpot science bit:
On the 6th anniversary of Win ME there are still people rabidly
anti-anything later than Windows 98 (it used to be 95. Before that MS-DOS
fanatics on an anti-GUI moral crusade - and I bet they're still around
too!).
They feel comfortable with 98. They've learnt it and want progress to cease
now. They expend enormous amounts of energy trying to make scientific
arguments to justify their new-found timidity, for they want to believe
themselves young at heart. But Evolution has no more use for them so their
conscious risk-taking switch has been turned off - about which they're in
denial - and now unconciously they just want to believe they're safe. Part
of believing they're safe is acting as though it's true, ie not taking
precautions.
I don't know about you, but I watch (almost) whole nations of people who,
from a selection of hypotheses believe the one (usually the most absurd!)
that supports their pre-existing lifestyle. People believe what they want to
believe. Hence snake oil salesmen. Hence Memory Managers, and the ubiquity
of Norton AntiVirus. Hence the need for those who actually care about, say,
quality of advice, to adjust it for the real world. Though you obviously do
care about it and presumably believe you have.
Novice users need a firewall, even if someone else has to configure it for
them. But even some of those are not completely 'gone'. A few will wise up,
when the firewall shows them all is not as it seems. Without the firewall
none of them will.
I'm a great believer in that which shows us all is not as it seems.
Shane
john.hood@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi-
> I'm the author of the site that Paul quoted. According to the posts,
> it looks like I thought there were issues with using a firewall with
> dial-up. I don't think there are issues, I just don't think it's
> necessary. ALL of the users I've worked with who have dial-up are the
> "Email and word processing" crowd. If they use the antivirus,
> anti-hijack and anti-spam recommendations, they should be just fine.
> Active crank-hackers trying to access or 'bot the pc over a dial-up
> connection will pass it by for an unsecured broadband connection
> elsewhere.
> People are more than welcome to install a firewall. I just have never
> seen more than prefunctory probing on home computers using dial-up,
> and I don't like installing more managed software than is necessary.
>
> As for Firewalls on a computer using broadband? Oh, hell yeah!
>
> The responders are so strident about "debunking" this 1: because the
> statement on the website is so ambigously worded that it can be taken
> that it sounds like I object to firewalls on dial-up, and 2: because
> they are very concerned about security, and that is a good thing. I
> just differ in how to achieve it on a specific config.
>
> I especially like the guy who said I should "go back to Computing
> 101". God that we twenty years ago!
>
> I have expanded the note to read as follows:
>
> "Note" WindowsXP Service Pack 2 has a firewall installed as part of
> it's Security Center. For those without this Windows version, here
> are some free firewall software options: Firewalls keep the bad guys
> out when you are running a high speed internet
> connection. I don't feel that a firewall is necessary on a dial-up
> internet connection. Many disagree and you may wish to install one
> for added safety."
>
> Constructive critics are welcomed at the contact link on the website
> www.jhoodsoft.org. Unconstructive critics will be told to go get
> their own d#$n web site.
>
> John H.
>
> PaulFXH wrote:
>> Mike M escreveu:
>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>>> which I believe is a respected and responsible site.
>>>
>>> If the author feels that a firewall is not required or going to
>>> cause problems with dial-up networking I would suggest he should
>>> start with Computing for Dummies 1, move on to Beginners Computing
>>> 10 and then graduate to Basic Computing 101. As for the site being
>>> respected, by you perhaps but who else? Not me for one and
>>> certainly not if he posts rubbish like that.
>>
>> Thanks for the replies, guys
>>
>> OK, so the reason for my OP was to find out if the
>> "non-recommendation" in this site was valid or just nonsense. Seems
>> to be unanimously coming down in favor of a "nonsense" verdict.
>> Actually, I did not say I, personally respected this site, but from
>> various referrences that I have seen to it, I made this deduction.
>> But.indeed, there does seem to be a lot of good stuff on it.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Maltby
>>> mike.maltby@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PaulFXH <paul_hackett2@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike M escreveu:
>>>>
>>>>>> Can anybody point out to me why there might be issues with a FW
>>>>>> on a machine with DUN?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are none. Why should you think that there might be
>>>>> problems?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Just to set the record straight for posterity, here is a quote
>>>> from my first post:
>>>>
>>>> "I've seen a review of firewall (actually freeware firewall)
>>>> options where it suggests that computers using a Dial-Up internet
>>>> connection should NOT use a firewall."
>>>>
>>>> The actual link referred to is here:
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.jhoodsoft.org/av.html
>>>>
>>>> which I believe is a respected and responsible site.
>>>> Look at the last section on this page (Firewalls). In the first
>>>> paragraph, he says "I don't recommend a firewall on a dial-up
>>>> internet connection. "
>>>> The only corroboration I could find for this remark in a Google
>>>> search referred to occasional problems with a specific ISP.