server crashed - recovering from backup

Hello,
I have a SBS2003 Premium server and have the following situation:
1. I have an IBMx226 server with Dual xeon 3GHz processors with 1GB
memory.
2. It was crashing randomly for the past week and then a couple of
days ago it totally crashed, does not even POST, seems that the
motherboard is toast.
3. I have a full backup on an external HDD using the SBS backup
application.
4. The HDD's from the system are running great, so all the data is
still available, but the server is not.

My options:
1. Try to get it fixed, but may take a long time to do so and I cannot
afford it.
2. Buy a new server (definetly not IBM) and install SBS2003 on it, I
have a HP-ML350 lined up and can be delivered tomorrow. And later if
the old server gets fixed it can be used as a second file server.

Problem:
1. How do I recover from the Backup of the old server so that I do not
have to reconfigure everything?
2. I can reinstall SBS and give it the same server name and domain
name, but how do I import all the AD information, the ISA information,
SQL server information, and other general configuration information
from the old server?
3. Is this possible at all, seems that from the MS documentation
recover from backup is only possible if the server is exactly the
same, is this true or are there workarounds to this issue?

Thanks for all your help.
chandrasekhar

SuperGumby
Mon Jun 30 10:15:30 PDT 2008

what sort of (hopefully RAID array) drive subsystem?

It's entirely possible that you could take the drives out of the current
system, throw them in the new, and boot. It is _likely_ to involve a little
more work than this but I have been amazed, at times, just how forgiving
Windows 2003 can be of hardware change.

<vcsekhar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3e952ee-3a2b-4ab7-97e0-2fb237f3c8b9@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
> I have a SBS2003 Premium server and have the following situation:
> 1. I have an IBMx226 server with Dual xeon 3GHz processors with 1GB
> memory.
> 2. It was crashing randomly for the past week and then a couple of
> days ago it totally crashed, does not even POST, seems that the
> motherboard is toast.
> 3. I have a full backup on an external HDD using the SBS backup
> application.
> 4. The HDD's from the system are running great, so all the data is
> still available, but the server is not.
>
> My options:
> 1. Try to get it fixed, but may take a long time to do so and I cannot
> afford it.
> 2. Buy a new server (definetly not IBM) and install SBS2003 on it, I
> have a HP-ML350 lined up and can be delivered tomorrow. And later if
> the old server gets fixed it can be used as a second file server.
>
> Problem:
> 1. How do I recover from the Backup of the old server so that I do not
> have to reconfigure everything?
> 2. I can reinstall SBS and give it the same server name and domain
> name, but how do I import all the AD information, the ISA information,
> SQL server information, and other general configuration information
> from the old server?
> 3. Is this possible at all, seems that from the MS documentation
> recover from backup is only possible if the server is exactly the
> same, is this true or are there workarounds to this issue?
>
> Thanks for all your help.
> chandrasekhar

vcsekhar
Mon Jun 30 11:31:20 PDT 2008

I have a simple RAID 0 (Mirror), like I said, the HDD's are fine and I
was able to recover all my Data from the drive.
The problem is now that I have to get a new server and I need to
restore all my Active Directory, ISA, Exchange and SQL Server
information
to the new server.

I have a full backup on an external HDD, but the restore documentation
says that it can only be restored to the original server or to
an exact duplicate of the original server with the same SCSI
controller and CPU and HDD partitions.

This is extremely annoying as this limitation is not there even in the
XP destop OS as you can recover to any computer running XP.
I was considering getting a HP or a Dell server, but they have
different RAID and SCSI controllers so the HDD may not be directly
readable by the new computers (not sure about this as I do not have
much experience with SCSI drives.)

Thanks for the help,
chandrasekhar



On Jun 30, 10:15=A0pm, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <n...@your.nellie> wrote:
> what sort of (hopefully RAID array) drive subsystem?
>
> It's entirely possible that you could take the drives out of the current
> system, throw them in the new, and boot. It is _likely_ to involve a littl=
e
> more work than this but I have been amazed, at times, just how forgiving
> Windows 2003 can be of hardware change.
>
> <vcsek...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a3e952ee-3a2b-4ab7-97e0-2fb237f3c8b9@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello,
> > I have a SBS2003 Premium server and have the following situation:
> > 1. I have an IBMx226 server with Dual xeon 3GHz processors with 1GB
> > memory.
> > 2. It was crashing randomly for the past week and then a couple of
> > days ago it totally crashed, does not even POST, seems that the
> > motherboard is toast.
> > 3. I have a full backup on an external HDD using the SBS backup
> > application.
> > 4. The HDD's from the system are running great, so all the data is
> > still available, but the server is not.
>
> > My options:
> > 1. Try to get it fixed, but may take a long time to do so and I cannot
> > afford it.
> > 2. Buy a new server (definetly not IBM) and install SBS2003 on it, I
> > have a HP-ML350 lined up and can be delivered tomorrow. And later if
> > the old server gets fixed it can be used as a second file server.
>
> > Problem:
> > 1. How do I recover from the Backup of the old server so that I do not
> > have to reconfigure everything?
> > 2. I can reinstall SBS and give it the same server name and domain
> > name, but how do I import all the AD information, the ISA information,
> > SQL server information, and other general configuration information
> > from the old server?
> > 3. Is this possible at all, seems that from the MS documentation
> > recover from backup is only possible if the server is exactly the
> > same, is this true or are there workarounds to this issue?
>
> > Thanks for all your help.
> > chandrasekhar- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Duncan
Mon Jun 30 16:52:52 PDT 2008

In article <be9638cd-ace9-4d66-b765-771b469db455
@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, vcsekhar@gmail.com says...
> I have a simple RAID 0 (Mirror), like I said, the HDD's are fine and I
> was able to recover all my Data from the drive.
> The problem is now that I have to get a new server and I need to
> restore all my Active Directory, ISA, Exchange and SQL Server
> information
> to the new server.
>
> I have a full backup on an external HDD, but the restore documentation
> says that it can only be restored to the original server or to
> an exact duplicate of the original server with the same SCSI
> controller and CPU and HDD partitions.
>
> This is extremely annoying as this limitation is not there even in the
> XP destop OS as you can recover to any computer running XP.
> I was considering getting a HP or a Dell server, but they have
> different RAID and SCSI controllers so the HDD may not be directly
> readable by the new computers (not sure about this as I do not have
> much experience with SCSI drives.)

Why don't you replace it with an similar IBM? They are generally very
very good, IMO anyway.

So you've had a bad experience, I don't think that a one-off like you've
had is good reason to dismiss IBM's outright.

It would make the restore a bit easier methinks?

--
Duncan

vcsekhar
Mon Jun 30 20:26:57 PDT 2008

I agree that it would be the easy thing to do, however, a similer one
(original netburst xeon 3.0GHz - single core) is not sold anymore.
In any case the server seemed to be slow responding to requests from
the clients when connected to OWA and exchange, so it would be a good
time to replace it with a much faster CPU now (I can get a xeon quad
core server for less than what i paid for my original server now).
But I am guessing that this is something that would be useful to many
other people in the same situation as I am in now. Typically a Small
business network has a server crash out of warrenty they would try to
replace it with a new one with a new warranty. So thats why I really
need to recover my settings and configuration from the backup, I have
already recoverd the business data from the old machine.

Thanks
chandrasekhar

On Jul 1, 4:52=A0am, Duncan McC <h...@work.ok> wrote:
> In article <be9638cd-ace9-4d66-b765-771b469db455
> @p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, vcsek...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have a simple RAID 0 (Mirror), like I said, the HDD's are fine and I
> > was able to recover all my Data from the drive.
> > The problem is now that I have to get a new server and I need to
> > restore all my Active Directory, ISA, Exchange and SQL Server
> > information
> > to the new server.
>
> > I have a full backup on an external HDD, but the restore documentation
> > says that it can only be restored to the original server or to
> > an exact duplicate of the original server with the same SCSI
> > controller and CPU and HDD partitions.
>
> > This is extremely annoying as this limitation is not there even in the
> > XP destop OS as you can recover to any computer running XP.
> > I was considering getting a HP or a Dell server, but they have
> > different RAID and SCSI controllers so the HDD may not be directly
> > readable by the new computers (not sure about this as I do not have
> > much experience with SCSI drives.)
>
> Why don't you replace it with an similar IBM? =A0They are generally very
> very good, IMO anyway.
>
> So you've had a bad experience, I don't think that a one-off like you've
> had is good reason to dismiss IBM's outright.
>
> It would make the restore a bit easier methinks?
>
> --
> Duncan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

SuperGumby
Tue Jul 01 00:12:01 PDT 2008

I _HOPE_ that you in fact have RAID1 (which is mirroring, rather than RAID0
which is striping).

Given both HDDs from a RAID1 pair I would probably set one aside (as my
fallback) and simply connect the other to the new system. I KID YOU NOT!
it's _likely_ to work.

The 'secrets' are to _ONLY_ start in Directory Services Restore Mode (we are
not actually going to restore anything) _NOT_ 'SAFE MODE', and if she BSOD's
on startup it is (again) _likely_ that a 'repair install' will get the
system operational. The DSRM startup, if it gets past BSOD, will allow
hardware changes to be detected and support for the changed devices to be
recognised by the system. Keep restarting in DSRM until such time as no
further hardware changes are detected and pay _particular_ attention to
networking. You DO NOT want to restart normally until the 'internal' NIC is
recognised.

This is your friend:
To view a list of previously attached (nonpresent) devices
At the command prompt, type:
Devmgmt.msc set DEVMGR_SHOW_NONPRESENT_DEVICES=1
In Device Manager, on the View menu, select Show hidden devices.
Remove any old devices, _IF_ you get this far, which is likely.

The major factors which impact the success rate of this are:
ENSURE you only start in DSRM.
PATIENCE. Sometimes the detection of the hardware changes takes time, 10
minutes is not unusual. Just let the system detect changes and load drivers.
Then, let it sit there a bit, and restart again (in DSRM). More devices may
be recognised. Do not start normally until s restart in DSRM has not
detected further change.
HDD subsystem. You are _most likely_ to succeed if the RAID controller is
movable between systems. This doesn't mean to say that 'disparate'
controllers won't work.
HAL. Our old mate HAL can be a bit of a problem. If the HAL from the old
system is not 'optimal' for the new but is 'acceptable' it is quite likely
that you will get up and running.

Both HAL and HDD subsystem can _probably_ be updated by a 'repair install',
if necessary. Patience comes at a price. The need to _only use_ DSRM is
tantamount, miss that option and you not only may be waiting a _long_ time
to be able to log on but it is likely to muck up the 'bindings' of various
services.

<vcsekhar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:095a4f7a-bace-42c0-a9de-9a61e8c1d952@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
I agree that it would be the easy thing to do, however, a similer one
(original netburst xeon 3.0GHz - single core) is not sold anymore.
In any case the server seemed to be slow responding to requests from
the clients when connected to OWA and exchange, so it would be a good
time to replace it with a much faster CPU now (I can get a xeon quad
core server for less than what i paid for my original server now).
But I am guessing that this is something that would be useful to many
other people in the same situation as I am in now. Typically a Small
business network has a server crash out of warrenty they would try to
replace it with a new one with a new warranty. So thats why I really
need to recover my settings and configuration from the backup, I have
already recoverd the business data from the old machine.

Thanks
chandrasekhar

On Jul 1, 4:52 am, Duncan McC <h...@work.ok> wrote:
> In article <be9638cd-ace9-4d66-b765-771b469db455
> @p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, vcsek...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have a simple RAID 0 (Mirror), like I said, the HDD's are fine and I
> > was able to recover all my Data from the drive.
> > The problem is now that I have to get a new server and I need to
> > restore all my Active Directory, ISA, Exchange and SQL Server
> > information
> > to the new server.
>
> > I have a full backup on an external HDD, but the restore documentation
> > says that it can only be restored to the original server or to
> > an exact duplicate of the original server with the same SCSI
> > controller and CPU and HDD partitions.
>
> > This is extremely annoying as this limitation is not there even in the
> > XP destop OS as you can recover to any computer running XP.
> > I was considering getting a HP or a Dell server, but they have
> > different RAID and SCSI controllers so the HDD may not be directly
> > readable by the new computers (not sure about this as I do not have
> > much experience with SCSI drives.)
>
> Why don't you replace it with an similar IBM? They are generally very
> very good, IMO anyway.
>
> So you've had a bad experience, I don't think that a one-off like you've
> had is good reason to dismiss IBM's outright.
>
> It would make the restore a bit easier methinks?
>
> --
> Duncan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

vcsekhar
Tue Jul 01 02:52:18 PDT 2008

Hi Super,
You are right I got the RAID numbers jumbled up, it is a Mirror so I
have 2 HDD's with exactly the same data and I know that both are ok.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try it out first when I get the
new server, but, I am still hoping that the server is fixable atleast
temporarily so that I can first get my network back and then
transition to a new server.
You are a SBS MVP so you may have an idea why this is so convoluted in
the server OS when it is so simple to recover from a backup to a new
computer or a new os install on a desktop OS machine.
It would have been so simple if I could just install the OS on a new
machine with the same server name and same domain name and then just
import all the AD users and such configuration settings into the new
server and then connect it to the network.
Is there a technical reason why this is so? Or are there other backup
professional (expensive!!!) programs available that will allow this on
the server OS's?
Well maybe the next version will fix this.

Thanks for your help.
chandrasekhar

On Jul 1, 12:12=A0pm, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <n...@your.nellie> wrote:
> I _HOPE_ that you in fact have =A0RAID1 (which is mirroring, rather than R=
AID0
> which is striping).
>
> Given both HDDs from a RAID1 pair I would probably set one aside (as my
> fallback) and simply connect the other to the new system. I KID YOU NOT!
> it's _likely_ to work.
>
> The 'secrets' are to _ONLY_ start in Directory Services Restore Mode (we a=
re
> not actually going to restore anything) _NOT_ 'SAFE MODE', and if she BSOD=
's
> on startup it is (again) _likely_ that a 'repair install' will get the
> system operational. The DSRM startup, if it gets past BSOD, will allow
> hardware changes to be detected and support for the changed devices to be
> recognised by the system. Keep restarting in DSRM until such time as no
> further hardware changes are detected and pay _particular_ attention to
> networking. You DO NOT want to restart normally until the 'internal' NIC i=
s
> recognised.
>
> This is your friend:
> To view a list of previously attached (nonpresent) devices
> At the command prompt, type:
> Devmgmt.msc set DEVMGR_SHOW_NONPRESENT_DEVICES=3D1
> In Device Manager, on the View menu, select Show hidden devices.
> Remove any old devices, _IF_ you get this far, which is likely.
>
> The major factors which impact the success rate of this are:
> ENSURE you only start in DSRM.
> PATIENCE. Sometimes the detection of the hardware changes takes time, 10
> minutes is not unusual. Just let the system detect changes and load driver=
s.
> Then, let it sit there a bit, and restart again (in DSRM). More devices ma=
y
> be recognised. Do not start normally until s restart in DSRM has not
> detected further change.
> HDD subsystem. You are _most likely_ to succeed if the RAID controller is
> movable between systems. This doesn't mean to say that 'disparate'
> controllers won't work.
> HAL. Our old mate HAL can be a bit of a problem. If the HAL from the old
> system is not 'optimal' for the new but is 'acceptable' it is quite likely=

> that you will get up and running.
>
> Both HAL and HDD subsystem can _probably_ be updated by a 'repair install'=
,
> if necessary. Patience comes at a price. The need to _only use_ DSRM is
> tantamount, miss that option and you not only may be waiting a _long_ time=

> to be able to log on but it is likely to muck up the 'bindings' of various=

> services.
>

SuperGumby
Tue Jul 01 05:33:24 PDT 2008

The 'portability' of an OS install has always had issues. I remember years
ago deleting all devices from devmgr on Win95 and _expecting_ to be able to
throw the drive into completely different hardware, let Prug'n'Pray sort it
out.

NT4 was both more finicky and more robust. More finicky due to HAL but if
you knew the rules this sort of 'forklift' was still possible. More robust
because, again, if you knew the rules, such a move would result well. In
this aspect Windows 2000 was more of a PITA, and I'm not suggesting it is a
'breeze' with 2003.

Over the years I have had to do 'repair' or 'parallel' installations, load
reg keys, rename files so that drivers for DeviceB would appear to be those
of DeviceA. I have watched such moves _mostly_ work and die in the final
stages (most frustrating). I have also heard or even observed people 'almost
there' give up in despair, to watch me complete the final step that gets it
back.

HOWEVER, I also only do the impossible on even numbered days. I've had m'
failures too.

A key point here is that _should the process succeed_ we are _not only_
dealing with the OS, there's all these 'apps' and 'services' and 'bindings'
that need to be handled properly as well. This is often not easy.

MS actually have information for 'restoring your server to different
hardware', it is full of caveats and cautions and is not simple.

Recently, 'drive imaging' programs have also improved such but IME all they
actually do is perform the regedits for you.


<vcsekhar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5b618a0c-0295-4c83-9b3d-77b541524258@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Hi Super,
You are right I got the RAID numbers jumbled up, it is a Mirror so I
have 2 HDD's with exactly the same data and I know that both are ok.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try it out first when I get the
new server, but, I am still hoping that the server is fixable atleast
temporarily so that I can first get my network back and then
transition to a new server.
You are a SBS MVP so you may have an idea why this is so convoluted in
the server OS when it is so simple to recover from a backup to a new
computer or a new os install on a desktop OS machine.
It would have been so simple if I could just install the OS on a new
machine with the same server name and same domain name and then just
import all the AD users and such configuration settings into the new
server and then connect it to the network.
Is there a technical reason why this is so? Or are there other backup
professional (expensive!!!) programs available that will allow this on
the server OS's?
Well maybe the next version will fix this.

Thanks for your help.
chandrasekhar

On Jul 1, 12:12 pm, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <n...@your.nellie> wrote:
> I _HOPE_ that you in fact have RAID1 (which is mirroring, rather than
> RAID0
> which is striping).
>
> Given both HDDs from a RAID1 pair I would probably set one aside (as my
> fallback) and simply connect the other to the new system. I KID YOU NOT!
> it's _likely_ to work.
>
> The 'secrets' are to _ONLY_ start in Directory Services Restore Mode (we
> are
> not actually going to restore anything) _NOT_ 'SAFE MODE', and if she
> BSOD's
> on startup it is (again) _likely_ that a 'repair install' will get the
> system operational. The DSRM startup, if it gets past BSOD, will allow
> hardware changes to be detected and support for the changed devices to be
> recognised by the system. Keep restarting in DSRM until such time as no
> further hardware changes are detected and pay _particular_ attention to
> networking. You DO NOT want to restart normally until the 'internal' NIC
> is
> recognised.
>
> This is your friend:
> To view a list of previously attached (nonpresent) devices
> At the command prompt, type:
> Devmgmt.msc set DEVMGR_SHOW_NONPRESENT_DEVICES=1
> In Device Manager, on the View menu, select Show hidden devices.
> Remove any old devices, _IF_ you get this far, which is likely.
>
> The major factors which impact the success rate of this are:
> ENSURE you only start in DSRM.
> PATIENCE. Sometimes the detection of the hardware changes takes time, 10
> minutes is not unusual. Just let the system detect changes and load
> drivers.
> Then, let it sit there a bit, and restart again (in DSRM). More devices
> may
> be recognised. Do not start normally until s restart in DSRM has not
> detected further change.
> HDD subsystem. You are _most likely_ to succeed if the RAID controller is
> movable between systems. This doesn't mean to say that 'disparate'
> controllers won't work.
> HAL. Our old mate HAL can be a bit of a problem. If the HAL from the old
> system is not 'optimal' for the new but is 'acceptable' it is quite likely
> that you will get up and running.
>
> Both HAL and HDD subsystem can _probably_ be updated by a 'repair
> install',
> if necessary. Patience comes at a price. The need to _only use_ DSRM is
> tantamount, miss that option and you not only may be waiting a _long_ time
> to be able to log on but it is likely to muck up the 'bindings' of various
> services.
>

vcsekhar
Tue Jul 01 06:11:40 PDT 2008

Hi,
Thanks for your reply, I will try this out when I get my new server.
However, I get what you say here, but I have a simple question.
With the advent of HAL (NT4 I think), the software layer was
abstracted away from the hardware that it was running on (atleast this
was the intention). So while the core OS does directly interact with
the HAL, the apps that run on top of the OS like the AD manager, the
SQL server etc interact with the core os rather than directly with the
HAL. So if the OS is installed then why should there be a problem
importing all the configuration information?

So when a new server which has the same name and domain name as the
old server is loaded with the same OS, the apps have to interact with
the same core software that are abstracting away the hardware from
them. In this scenario why is it so difficult to just import the
configuration information from a backup of the old server.
I am not trying to recover, or even suggesting that it should be
possible, to recover from a backup to a new server straight up. I
thought that it should be possible to install the OS from media and
then after the basic software is installed, all the configuration
parameters for all the apps could just be imported from the system
state backup and AD information of all the clients and users from the
old server. I thought that atleast this should be built in somehow in
all the backup utilities since one of the most common usage of backups
for small businesses is when you have a real problem with the server
and a new server is required.
I am hoping that maybe someday a third part backup software provider
can develop some application that can do this.

regards,
chandrasekhar






On Jul 1, 5:33=A0pm, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <n...@your.nellie> wrote:
> The 'portability' of an OS install has always had issues. I remember years=

> ago deleting all devices from devmgr on Win95 and _expecting_ to be able t=
o
> throw the drive into completely different hardware, let Prug'n'Pray sort i=
t
> out.
>
> NT4 was both more finicky and more robust. More finicky due to HAL but if
> you knew the rules this sort of 'forklift' was still possible. More robust=

> because, again, if you knew the rules, such a move would result well. In
> this aspect Windows 2000 was more of a PITA, and I'm not suggesting it is =
a
> 'breeze' with 2003.
>
> Over the years I have had to do 'repair' or 'parallel' installations, load=

> reg keys, rename files so that drivers for DeviceB would appear to be thos=
e
> of DeviceA. I have watched such moves _mostly_ work and die in the final
> stages (most frustrating). I have also heard or even observed people 'almo=
st
> there' give up in despair, to watch me complete the final step that gets i=
t
> back.
>
> HOWEVER, I also only do the impossible on even numbered days. I've had m'
> failures too.
>
> A key point here is that _should the process succeed_ we are _not only_
> dealing with the OS, there's all these 'apps' and 'services' and 'bindings=
'
> that need to be handled properly as well. This is often not easy.
>
> MS actually have information for 'restoring your server to different
> hardware', it is full of caveats and cautions and is not simple.
>
> Recently, 'drive imaging' programs have also improved such but IME all the=
y
> actually do is perform the regedits for you.