I've been working with my SBS server in a test environment and have
been experimenting with the migration of email from my OE clients. On
several occasions I removed from exchange all of the messages and then
re-established them with the outlook client. This has caused my
exchange db to grow.

I guess I'm concerned that I should run some manual maintenance before
putting this into production to make sure exchange is healthy, OR is
there regular maintenance that is taking care of this? If so, can I
look at the maintenance logs to make sure everything is all right? My
experiments have been with 2GB's of mail each time and my present
priv1.edb is 3.4GB.

I've read a few posts about whether or not to run manual maintenance
and it seems there are 2 camps on this. I don't want to over do it,
but I also want a healthy system.

Advice.

Thanks,

Roveer

Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Al

Al
Wed May 14 11:03:14 PDT 2008

Look for nightly 1207 and 1221 events in your APP log - they will show how
much free sapce you have in your DB. If it's a lot you can (should?) run
ESEUTIL and defrag them offline but you don't have to - the free space will
be used up as the DB grows.

--
Allan Williams



"Roveer" <roveer@erols.com> wrote in message
news:65748adb-d413-4624-a0eb-e4807c268a64@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
> I've been working with my SBS server in a test environment and have
> been experimenting with the migration of email from my OE clients. On
> several occasions I removed from exchange all of the messages and then
> re-established them with the outlook client. This has caused my
> exchange db to grow.
>
> I guess I'm concerned that I should run some manual maintenance before
> putting this into production to make sure exchange is healthy, OR is
> there regular maintenance that is taking care of this? If so, can I
> look at the maintenance logs to make sure everything is all right? My
> experiments have been with 2GB's of mail each time and my present
> priv1.edb is 3.4GB.
>
> I've read a few posts about whether or not to run manual maintenance
> and it seems there are 2 camps on this. I don't want to over do it,
> but I also want a healthy system.
>
> Advice.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roveer



Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Larry

Larry
Wed May 14 11:22:51 PDT 2008

Hi Roveer:

3.4 GB with nothing visible means there are a lot of messages in the
retention period. As we have discussed before, Exchange does its own
maintenance during the night, but it does not shrink the apparent size of
the .edb or .stm files, so as to preserve the disk space for its own needs.

IMO, you have a fully functional exchange store, and messing with it is much
more likely to break it than leaving it alone. Assuming you have not
already messed with it. You can open ESM, turn up the logging on all
components and let it run for a day or so and see what you get.

Lastly, you can go over to the exchange groups and ask there, as you seem
unwilling to believe the advice you get here, and keep asking the same
question. Fwiw, I would probably not let them know you have SBS, as they
may not know about, nor understand it. Unless of course, you get our own
Lanwench, who will probably check in here, although she is less inclined to
answer the same question over and over than most of us.

--
Larry

Please post the resolution to
your issue so that all can benefit.


"Roveer" <roveer@erols.com> wrote in message
news:65748adb-d413-4624-a0eb-e4807c268a64@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
> I've been working with my SBS server in a test environment and have
> been experimenting with the migration of email from my OE clients. On
> several occasions I removed from exchange all of the messages and then
> re-established them with the outlook client. This has caused my
> exchange db to grow.
>
> I guess I'm concerned that I should run some manual maintenance before
> putting this into production to make sure exchange is healthy, OR is
> there regular maintenance that is taking care of this? If so, can I
> look at the maintenance logs to make sure everything is all right? My
> experiments have been with 2GB's of mail each time and my present
> priv1.edb is 3.4GB.
>
> I've read a few posts about whether or not to run manual maintenance
> and it seems there are 2 camps on this. I don't want to over do it,
> but I also want a healthy system.
>
> Advice.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roveer



Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Roveer

Roveer
Wed May 14 12:19:20 PDT 2008

Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] wrote:
> Hi Roveer:
>
> 3.4 GB with nothing visible means there are a lot of messages in the
> retention period. As we have discussed before, Exchange does its own
> maintenance during the night, but it does not shrink the apparent size of
> the .edb or .stm files, so as to preserve the disk space for its own needs.
>
> IMO, you have a fully functional exchange store, and messing with it is much
> more likely to break it than leaving it alone. Assuming you have not
> already messed with it. You can open ESM, turn up the logging on all
> components and let it run for a day or so and see what you get.
>
> Lastly, you can go over to the exchange groups and ask there, as you seem
> unwilling to believe the advice you get here, and keep asking the same
> question. Fwiw, I would probably not let them know you have SBS, as they
> may not know about, nor understand it. Unless of course, you get our own
> Lanwench, who will probably check in here, although she is less inclined to
> answer the same question over and over than most of us.
>

Larry,

I appreciate your comments, even the last paragraph. And no, I haven't
messed with it. That's why I post here first. Only after receiving
information that I then research do I typically make a change. If you
notice, I _try_ not to ask the same questions over and over, but rather
new questions based on my new understanding from reading responses I
read. As you'll notice, I often get radically different answers (as I
have in this post). Your third paragraph indicates that I don't listen
to advise to just "leave it alone", but the previous poster indicated
that I _might_ want to run some off-line maintenance. Don't be so
closed minded. After all, this is a public newsgroup and your opinion
is not the only one. I do appreciate your input. Just trying to avoid
the "my exchange is broken, oh you should have run some maintenance
before you went live" post. I've been around a while.

Roveer

Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Larry

Larry
Wed May 14 12:51:18 PDT 2008

Roveer, I apologize. A very similar question was answered recently, but I
checked your previous posts and did not find one from you. I hope you are
not too put out, and I promise never to do that again without double
checking the source.

Now, I stand by my comment. Leave it alone unless you *really* really* need
the space. Shrinking it will just clear out the white space, and then it
will have to grow again.

--
Larry

Please post the resolution to
your issue so that all can benefit.


"Roveer" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:YWGWj.1669$i51.571@trndny09...
> Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] wrote:
>> Hi Roveer:
>>
>> 3.4 GB with nothing visible means there are a lot of messages in the
>> retention period. As we have discussed before, Exchange does its own
>> maintenance during the night, but it does not shrink the apparent size of
>> the .edb or .stm files, so as to preserve the disk space for its own
>> needs.
>>
>> IMO, you have a fully functional exchange store, and messing with it is
>> much more likely to break it than leaving it alone. Assuming you have
>> not already messed with it. You can open ESM, turn up the logging on all
>> components and let it run for a day or so and see what you get.
>>
>> Lastly, you can go over to the exchange groups and ask there, as you seem
>> unwilling to believe the advice you get here, and keep asking the same
>> question. Fwiw, I would probably not let them know you have SBS, as they
>> may not know about, nor understand it. Unless of course, you get our own
>> Lanwench, who will probably check in here, although she is less inclined
>> to answer the same question over and over than most of us.
>>
>
> Larry,
>
> I appreciate your comments, even the last paragraph. And no, I haven't
> messed with it. That's why I post here first. Only after receiving
> information that I then research do I typically make a change. If you
> notice, I _try_ not to ask the same questions over and over, but rather
> new questions based on my new understanding from reading responses I read.
> As you'll notice, I often get radically different answers (as I have in
> this post). Your third paragraph indicates that I don't listen to advise
> to just "leave it alone", but the previous poster indicated that I _might_
> want to run some off-line maintenance. Don't be so closed minded. After
> all, this is a public newsgroup and your opinion is not the only one. I
> do appreciate your input. Just trying to avoid the "my exchange is
> broken, oh you should have run some maintenance before you went live"
> post. I've been around a while.
>
> Roveer



Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Roveer

Roveer
Wed May 14 14:37:25 PDT 2008

Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] wrote:
> Roveer, I apologize. A very similar question was answered recently, but I
> checked your previous posts and did not find one from you. I hope you are
> not too put out, and I promise never to do that again without double
> checking the source.
>
> Now, I stand by my comment. Leave it alone unless you *really* really* need
> the space. Shrinking it will just clear out the white space, and then it
> will have to grow again.
>

Larry,

No offense taken. I do get a bit verbose in my posts and at times do
ask very similar questions. I'm just trying to make sure that after all
the claims I've made about why we should be using a server and exchange
that some small insignificant item that I overlooked doesn't come back
to bite me. I often come off as a bit intense, especially when I'm
hunting technology related knowledge.

All that being said, I want to thank everyone on this group for
providing such good information and sharing their experiences. I can
tell you that I've learned volumes in the past months and feel very
comfortable in the decision I've made to go to SBS. The list of
features that we are going to use right from the start is impressive and
will have a positive impact in our office. I'm just glad I had such a
good resource to come to and that so many of you are willing to take the
time to post and reply to our posts to help out. After all many of you
make a living doing this and here you are helping for free. Pro Bono.
My thanks.

Now, I have read up on the maintenance, and I took the advice from the
first reply and used the event viewer to inspect exactly what the
nightly maintenance was doing. I see that when the messages & mailboxes
hit their retention limits they will be removed. This gives me a good
feeling that exchange is doing it's thing. This was a very beneficial
exercise. Oh, I see I've gotten verbose again. Just my thing I guess.

Larry, we're all good.

Roveer

Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by Cary

Cary
Thu May 15 02:08:53 PDT 2008

Roveer,

I think that I am probably a bit more verbose than you!

One of the things - if I might speak for others at the moment - that I
noticed when I was an MVP for Active Directory is that most people do not
search the news group before posting a question. Now, not saying that you
are doing this...just a very very very general comment. That used to drive
me a bit crazy. Mind you - the exact same question! Not 90% the same with
a decided twist...the exact same question. In fact, I remember one time
that the same question was posted by three different posters in a row.

Another thing that I noticed is that there are people who just do not
listen. Again, not saying that pertains to you. Just a very very very
general comment. That gets a bit frustrating for the people who pretty
much live in this or that news group. I think that you will find that there
are probably eight or 10 people who live in here. These - along with
others - know SBS inside and out. They also, well, like I already said,
live in this news group so they probably already know the issue and the
solution before you ask.

One more thing is that these eight or 10 people (as well as a lot of others)
have a very good basis of knowledge and can tell when someone is going down
the wrong path. I do this myself. I have been doing this for 11 years and
have my own way of doing things. I know a thing or two - mostly from bad
decisions. So I have a pretty good idea when someone is trying really hard
to go down the wrong path. I try to nudge those in the 'better' direction.
But, as we all know, every environment is different. I have been introduced
to environments that are literally hanging on by a band-aid. If you 'fix'
things then all you are going to do is to break pretty much everything.

Anyway, everyone in here is doing this on his/her own time and - for the
most part - because he/she loves doing this. MVPs do not work for
Microsoft. Sometimes, Microsoft gets tired of hearing from MVPs. We (well,
not 'me' anymore.....) can be pretty harsh with Microsoft at times.

I started out like you did.....asking a ton of questions. There is nothing
wrong with spending a lot of time in here and in a lab. In fact, this is
what I would really suggest that you do. Create a lab environment with a
couple of machines and play. And, don't be afraid to ask a question. If
you have it then you can rest assured that there are a whole slew of others
who have the same - or similar - question. You will also get to know whose
answers you can trust and whose you can not. Unfortunately there are a few
who give really bad answers intentionally. Someone with limited experience
might try to implement 'that bad answer' and really find himself/herself in
a bind. Those whom you can trust do a pretty good job of making everyone
aware of those few bad apples.

I spend a little bit of time in here as we manage several clients with
SBS2003. SBS2003 is its own animal and has its own way of doing
things....the first three rules of thumb with SBS2003: use the wizards, use
the wizards and, finally, use the wizards! I stole that from someone in
here! As you can see from the hour of this post I am up early. Just a ton
of work!

Anyway, I think that you will find that most regulars in here have a very
strong opinion and are not afraid to voice it. All in all, it is a really
good group of people who frequent this ng and I am sure that you will find
lots of good, sound advice in here.

Cary


"Roveer" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:pYIWj.10055$mc1.6923@trndny08...
> Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] wrote:
>> Roveer, I apologize. A very similar question was answered recently, but
>> I checked your previous posts and did not find one from you. I hope you
>> are not too put out, and I promise never to do that again without double
>> checking the source.
>>
>> Now, I stand by my comment. Leave it alone unless you *really* really*
>> need the space. Shrinking it will just clear out the white space, and
>> then it will have to grow again.
>>
>
> Larry,
>
> No offense taken. I do get a bit verbose in my posts and at times do ask
> very similar questions. I'm just trying to make sure that after all the
> claims I've made about why we should be using a server and exchange that
> some small insignificant item that I overlooked doesn't come back to bite
> me. I often come off as a bit intense, especially when I'm hunting
> technology related knowledge.
>
> All that being said, I want to thank everyone on this group for providing
> such good information and sharing their experiences. I can tell you that
> I've learned volumes in the past months and feel very comfortable in the
> decision I've made to go to SBS. The list of features that we are going
> to use right from the start is impressive and will have a positive impact
> in our office. I'm just glad I had such a good resource to come to and
> that so many of you are willing to take the time to post and reply to our
> posts to help out. After all many of you make a living doing this and
> here you are helping for free. Pro Bono. My thanks.
>
> Now, I have read up on the maintenance, and I took the advice from the
> first reply and used the event viewer to inspect exactly what the nightly
> maintenance was doing. I see that when the messages & mailboxes hit their
> retention limits they will be removed. This gives me a good feeling that
> exchange is doing it's thing. This was a very beneficial exercise. Oh, I
> see I've gotten verbose again. Just my thing I guess.
>
> Larry, we're all good.
>
> Roveer



Re: Exchange maintenance after loading/deleting messages. by SuperGumby

SuperGumby
Thu May 15 08:38:46 PDT 2008

and just why does Exchange commit all this memory/filespace and not want to
give it back?

Exchange is, basically, an RDBMS (Relational Database Management System). In
some ways the fact that it handles email is a secondary consideration, as
far as Exchange is concerned it's 'DATA'. A basic principle of RDBMS design
is that 'if it was accessed it will probably be accessed again', a high
percentage of 'queries' are satisfied by looking only at recently accessed
information. So, Exchange keeps as much of this 'recently accessed' in
memory as it can.

The file side of things is similar but has a twist. If Exchange has room in
the database to store incoming info (new messages) it can do so without
calling 'gimme another block of filespace', without adjusting its indices to
accomodate that new block. And those indices are important, fragment those
indices by perpetually growing/shrinking them and they get spread all over
RAM and filespace, here's part of the table and we will now jump somewhere
else and give you the next part of the table, and the next, and the next...

SBS suffers a little from this. What works well for an 'enterprise' with
several hundred Exchange users maybe doesn't work as well when Sam can turn
to Sally and say 'I just got that contract confirmation', but look at how
you use email. I know I work with Exchange, most of what I access is less
than 24hrs old. Yes I search for older stuff, need it at times, have
projects that take weeks (if not months), but still 'if it was accessed it
will probably be accessed again'.


"Cary Shultz" <cshultz@nospam.outsourceitcorp.com> wrote in message
news:Ot4S5smtIHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Roveer,
>
> I think that I am probably a bit more verbose than you!
>
> One of the things - if I might speak for others at the moment - that I
> noticed when I was an MVP for Active Directory is that most people do not
> search the news group before posting a question. Now, not saying that you
> are doing this...just a very very very general comment. That used to
> drive me a bit crazy. Mind you - the exact same question! Not 90% the
> same with a decided twist...the exact same question. In fact, I remember
> one time that the same question was posted by three different posters in a
> row.
>
> Another thing that I noticed is that there are people who just do not
> listen. Again, not saying that pertains to you. Just a very very very
> general comment. That gets a bit frustrating for the people who pretty
> much live in this or that news group. I think that you will find that
> there are probably eight or 10 people who live in here. These - along
> with others - know SBS inside and out. They also, well, like I already
> said, live in this news group so they probably already know the issue and
> the solution before you ask.
>
> One more thing is that these eight or 10 people (as well as a lot of
> others) have a very good basis of knowledge and can tell when someone is
> going down the wrong path. I do this myself. I have been doing this for
> 11 years and have my own way of doing things. I know a thing or two -
> mostly from bad decisions. So I have a pretty good idea when someone is
> trying really hard to go down the wrong path. I try to nudge those in the
> 'better' direction. But, as we all know, every environment is different.
> I have been introduced to environments that are literally hanging on by a
> band-aid. If you 'fix' things then all you are going to do is to break
> pretty much everything.
>
> Anyway, everyone in here is doing this on his/her own time and - for the
> most part - because he/she loves doing this. MVPs do not work for
> Microsoft. Sometimes, Microsoft gets tired of hearing from MVPs. We
> (well, not 'me' anymore.....) can be pretty harsh with Microsoft at times.
>
> I started out like you did.....asking a ton of questions. There is
> nothing wrong with spending a lot of time in here and in a lab. In fact,
> this is what I would really suggest that you do. Create a lab environment
> with a couple of machines and play. And, don't be afraid to ask a
> question. If you have it then you can rest assured that there are a whole
> slew of others who have the same - or similar - question. You will also
> get to know whose answers you can trust and whose you can not.
> Unfortunately there are a few who give really bad answers intentionally.
> Someone with limited experience might try to implement 'that bad answer'
> and really find himself/herself in a bind. Those whom you can trust do a
> pretty good job of making everyone aware of those few bad apples.
>
> I spend a little bit of time in here as we manage several clients with
> SBS2003. SBS2003 is its own animal and has its own way of doing
> things....the first three rules of thumb with SBS2003: use the wizards,
> use the wizards and, finally, use the wizards! I stole that from someone
> in here! As you can see from the hour of this post I am up early. Just a
> ton of work!
>
> Anyway, I think that you will find that most regulars in here have a very
> strong opinion and are not afraid to voice it. All in all, it is a really
> good group of people who frequent this ng and I am sure that you will find
> lots of good, sound advice in here.
>
> Cary
>
>
> "Roveer" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:pYIWj.10055$mc1.6923@trndny08...
>> Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] wrote:
>>> Roveer, I apologize. A very similar question was answered recently,
>>> but I checked your previous posts and did not find one from you. I hope
>>> you are not too put out, and I promise never to do that again without
>>> double checking the source.
>>>
>>> Now, I stand by my comment. Leave it alone unless you *really* really*
>>> need the space. Shrinking it will just clear out the white space, and
>>> then it will have to grow again.
>>>
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> No offense taken. I do get a bit verbose in my posts and at times do ask
>> very similar questions. I'm just trying to make sure that after all the
>> claims I've made about why we should be using a server and exchange that
>> some small insignificant item that I overlooked doesn't come back to bite
>> me. I often come off as a bit intense, especially when I'm hunting
>> technology related knowledge.
>>
>> All that being said, I want to thank everyone on this group for providing
>> such good information and sharing their experiences. I can tell you that
>> I've learned volumes in the past months and feel very comfortable in the
>> decision I've made to go to SBS. The list of features that we are going
>> to use right from the start is impressive and will have a positive impact
>> in our office. I'm just glad I had such a good resource to come to and
>> that so many of you are willing to take the time to post and reply to our
>> posts to help out. After all many of you make a living doing this and
>> here you are helping for free. Pro Bono. My thanks.
>>
>> Now, I have read up on the maintenance, and I took the advice from the
>> first reply and used the event viewer to inspect exactly what the nightly
>> maintenance was doing. I see that when the messages & mailboxes hit
>> their retention limits they will be removed. This gives me a good
>> feeling that exchange is doing it's thing. This was a very beneficial
>> exercise. Oh, I see I've gotten verbose again. Just my thing I guess.
>>
>> Larry, we're all good.
>>
>> Roveer
>
>