What behaviour is to be expected from my iPAQ 2210 (WM 2003) when its
battery reaches the critical (10%) level causing it to shut down
please?

While running Memory-Map its battery unfortunately reached that level
after only about 3 hours into a walk I was recording (via a Bluetooth
GPS receiver). On restarting it later in its recharging cradle, I
assumed I would still have the GPS track up to that point, but no.

I thought that when a PPC closes down it was simply like switching it
off, and on restarting it all programs that were running should still
be running?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by Thurman

Thurman
Sat May 03 10:26:06 PDT 2008


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:g52p1450emo4pkp87ulsqgc6735ae7mbi2@4ax.com...
> I thought that when a PPC closes down it was simply like switching it
> off, and on restarting it all programs that were running should still
> be running?

On my PPC2003 devices, if they go power flat, they go dumb. There is no
data/programs left.

My Mobile 5/6 devices have 'persistent' memory.

If you want to log your trips, self contained logging GPS units are now less
than $99 USD.



Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by Sven

Sven
Sat May 03 10:51:15 PDT 2008

Did you have anything left? Earlier PPCs had some level at which they went
into a 'hibernation' which should allow you to get back to a power source
and keep your current condition. This is different than the "backup battery"
which was there to allow switching batteries without creating a hard reset.
I rarely let my systems get to that point, but it is conceivable that the
items in execution RAM might be lost. Things like open Word docs, notes,
etc. might be in jeopardy.The function of the reserve shutdown was to
protect the Storage RAM, because if you lost it, the unit was like it came
from the factory, i.e a hard reset. The 2215 is a relatively old device. It
is possible that the batterry has deteriorated to the point that the length
of time the 'reserve' lasts, has decreased dramatically, as it appears the
regular capacity has.


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:g52p1450emo4pkp87ulsqgc6735ae7mbi2@4ax.com...
> What behaviour is to be expected from my iPAQ 2210 (WM 2003) when its
> battery reaches the critical (10%) level causing it to shut down
> please?
>
> While running Memory-Map its battery unfortunately reached that level
> after only about 3 hours into a walk I was recording (via a Bluetooth
> GPS receiver). On restarting it later in its recharging cradle, I
> assumed I would still have the GPS track up to that point, but no.
>
> I thought that when a PPC closes down it was simply like switching it
> off, and on restarting it all programs that were running should still
> be running?
>
> --
> Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by Terry

Terry
Sat May 03 22:44:38 PDT 2008

"Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Did you have anything left? Earlier PPCs had some level at which they went
>into a 'hibernation' which should allow you to get back to a power source
>and keep your current condition. This is different than the "backup battery"
>which was there to allow switching batteries without creating a hard reset.
>I rarely let my systems get to that point, but it is conceivable that the
>items in execution RAM might be lost. Things like open Word docs, notes,
>etc. might be in jeopardy.The function of the reserve shutdown was to
>protect the Storage RAM, because if you lost it, the unit was like it came
>from the factory, i.e a hard reset. The 2215 is a relatively old device. It
>is possible that the batterry has deteriorated to the point that the length
>of time the 'reserve' lasts, has decreased dramatically, as it appears the
>regular capacity has.
>

No, nothing left at all.

Probably only about 15-30 mins after I'd last viewed the screen, I
took the PPC from my pocket while eating my packed lunch. I aimed to
deliberately switch it off to conserve the battery. But it was already
off.

I *assume* the usual warning had been displayed, but of course I was
unaware of it. I then tried to switch it on, as I assumed there must
be some charge left, but no, it wouldn't. That's the most surprising
aspect. Can that only be due to the backup battery having failed too?
But, with 10% of the main battery left, how could that happen? I can't
be 100% sure, but doesn't the warning itself disappear after a short
while, and - with nearly 10% left - the PPC then close down
automatically? If so, I just don't see why the BU battery could fail
so completely that it couldn't resource a brief re-start?

Anyway, I then attempted to reset using the stylus, but nothing
happened. Needless to say I was mad at myself, as I had no fewer than
two spare batteries but had hastily left home and forgotten to bring
one! I even have a newly bought 'Battery Extender', 4 x AA cells with
a cable and plug, although I'd only anticipate using that on a much
longer walk. It's quite heavy ;-)

On return home, as soon as I placed the 2210 in its cradle, the normal
Today screen was displayed. But, as described earlier, no automatic
backup from Mem-Map was present. I have yet to establish what Mem-Map
should do when closed abruptly. I have vaguely assumed that any
well-designed application should take a backup automatically. But I've
never tested this methodically for any of my PPC applications. Have
you? And, even if that's true in general, Mem-Map may not cut the
mustard - it has quite a few design flaws.

Does this behaviour square best with a poor backup battery? (I'm not
sure I agree with your implication that a 3 hour life is poor for the
main battery. I've never had much more from any of 3 batteries, 2
being 1000 mAH replacements for the original 900 mAH. Using Bluetooth
I gather is particularly hard on consumption?) If it *is* down to the
BU battery, do you think that might be fixable, or must I finally
reconcile myself to buying a new model and facing the hassle of
re-installation?

On a previous occasion, when I replaced a discharged battery during a
similar walk, all was OK. So, I will do my damndest not to forget the
spare battery in future!

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK




>
>"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:g52p1450emo4pkp87ulsqgc6735ae7mbi2@4ax.com...
>> What behaviour is to be expected from my iPAQ 2210 (WM 2003) when its
>> battery reaches the critical (10%) level causing it to shut down
>> please?
>>
>> While running Memory-Map its battery unfortunately reached that level
>> after only about 3 hours into a walk I was recording (via a Bluetooth
>> GPS receiver). On restarting it later in its recharging cradle, I
>> assumed I would still have the GPS track up to that point, but no.
>>
>> I thought that when a PPC closes down it was simply like switching it
>> off, and on restarting it all programs that were running should still
>> be running?
>>
>> --
>> Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by T

T
Sun May 04 00:58:10 PDT 2008

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:iahq145afkpbfssq0c0aqfnt9vl7quhor0@4ax.com...
> "Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I *assume* the usual warning had been displayed, but of course I was
> unaware of it. I then tried to switch it on, as I assumed there must
> be some charge left, but no, it wouldn't. That's the most surprising
> aspect. Can that only be due to the backup battery having failed too?
> But, with 10% of the main battery left, how could that happen? I can't
> be 100% sure, but doesn't the warning itself disappear after a short
> while, and - with nearly 10% left - the PPC then close down
> automatically? If so, I just don't see why the BU battery could fail
> so completely that it couldn't resource a brief re-start?
>

The charge level is estimated from the battery voltage. As the battery ages
it's going to have less current capacity left at the trigger voltage. IOW
the monitor only works correctly with a healthy battery.

The drained power battery could pull down the backup battery faster than if
no power battery was attached. Back up just keeps it alive. It's not
supposed to run/start it.


Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by Sven

Sven
Sun May 04 10:33:07 PDT 2008

OK, then you did actually 'hard reset'. Like I said, the backup battery is
only there to allow battery swapping. It is meant for a minute or so, though
some manuals, screens mention a time frame a bit longrer than that.
Typically swapping a battery only takes 15 secs or so. A bad backup battery
is evidenced by your trying to swap a batterry and getting a hard restet
during that short 15-30 sec period. Unfortunately these things are internal,
and often soldered in. Some are just a charged capacitor.

The feature of shutting down when power is low, is an attempt to reserve
some percentage of the regular battery to maintain data at the lowest
possible current draw possible, radios off, screen off, essentially no
processing, just enough to maintain RAM. With a new battery that lasts 6
hours, the reserve when the saver feature kicks in may last 6 hours or 12,
depending on the device. With an old battery, it may shorten the length of
time you have to get real power applied dramatically.

All I can say is, do remember to take your extras, (your Battery Extender
would have saved you) maybe investigate and invest in a backup program that
features a low battery trigger, or, get a WM5/6 device to replace what you
have. These all have persistant memory. You can leave the battery out, lay
it on the shelf for a month, replace the battery and be right where you left
off. I wouldn't recommend this with applications open, mind you, but closed
files will remain. Oh, and you will have to suffer through all the reminders
you missed during the month. ;)


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:iahq145afkpbfssq0c0aqfnt9vl7quhor0@4ax.com...
> "Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Did you have anything left? Earlier PPCs had some level at which they went
>>
>
> No, nothing left at all.
>


Re: Automatic shutdown behaviour? by Terry

Terry
Mon May 05 04:57:17 PDT 2008

"Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:

>OK, then you did actually 'hard reset'.

No. As I said, "...as soon as I placed the 2210 in its cradle, the
normal Today screen was displayed." Everything was normal.

But the same happened again yesterday, only this time it *did* get a
hard reset.

This is what happened. Lesson-learned, this time I was carrying two
spare lithium batteries, both recently charged. But after inserting
the first, the PPC still failed to start. I'll have to check the
battery; it was the oldest one I have, so maybe it's not holding a
charge. On inserting the second, the PPC started OK - but this time
did a hard reset!

I take automatic backups every morning at 07:00 so I restored the
latest of those, which at least got me back into Mem-Map and let me
record the remaining 10% of my walk. But of course
- I no longer had my pre-loaded track on the PPC (because I'd made
that shortly before the walk, well after 07:00)
- I lost all the earlier recorded track
- I lost all 3 or 4 overlay backups I'd taken at stages throughout
that 90%, as extra insurance.

>Like I said, the backup battery is
>only there to allow battery swapping. It is meant for a minute or so, though
>some manuals, screens mention a time frame a bit longrer than that.
>Typically swapping a battery only takes 15 secs or so. A bad backup battery
>is evidenced by your trying to swap a batterry and getting a hard restet
>during that short 15-30 sec period. Unfortunately these things are internal,
>and often soldered in. Some are just a charged capacitor.
>
>The feature of shutting down when power is low, is an attempt to reserve
>some percentage of the regular battery to maintain data at the lowest
>possible current draw possible, radios off, screen off, essentially no
>processing, just enough to maintain RAM. With a new battery that lasts 6
>hours, the reserve when the saver feature kicks in may last 6 hours or 12,
>depending on the device. With an old battery, it may shorten the length of
>time you have to get real power applied dramatically.
>
>All I can say is, do remember to take your extras, (your Battery Extender
>would have saved you) maybe investigate and invest in a backup program that
>features a low battery trigger, or, get a WM5/6 device to replace what you
>have. These all have persistant memory. You can leave the battery out, lay
>it on the shelf for a month, replace the battery and be right where you left
>off. I wouldn't recommend this with applications open, mind you, but closed
>files will remain. Oh, and you will have to suffer through all the reminders
>you missed during the month. ;)

I'll include the Battery Extender too next time ;-)

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

>
>"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:iahq145afkpbfssq0c0aqfnt9vl7quhor0@4ax.com...
>> "Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Did you have anything left? Earlier PPCs had some level at which they went
>>>
>>
>> No, nothing left at all.
>>