Hi.I am using CE.net 4.2 on intel pxa263.
The display driver supports screen rotation by porting the rflat driver.
Now,my question is:
1)Will DirectDraw improve the video performance even without hardware acceleration ?

2)Is it possible to develop a driver support both rotating and DirecDraw?
The sample Geode Gxvideo can only support one feature at the compilation time.

Thanks

Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by Dean

Dean
Thu Apr 29 07:40:32 CDT 2004

1) Yes, for applications that support DirectDraw. The general overhead is
less, and the improvement can sometimes be dramatic.

2) No. DirectDraw and screen rotation are mutually exclusive. CE cannot
support both.

--
Dean Ramsier - eMVP
Accelent Systems
http://www.accelent.com


"yHuang" <huangyi@bokia.net> wrote in message
news:559ee802.0404290055.30431399@posting.google.com...
> Hi.I am using CE.net 4.2 on intel pxa263.
> The display driver supports screen rotation by porting the rflat driver.
> Now,my question is:
> 1)Will DirectDraw improve the video performance even without hardware
acceleration ?
>
> 2)Is it possible to develop a driver support both rotating and DirecDraw?
> The sample Geode Gxvideo can only support one feature at the compilation
time.
>
> Thanks



Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by huangyi

huangyi
Thu Apr 29 21:51:57 CDT 2004

Thank you for the reply.
And another question:
What are the impactions on the appilcaiton if the display driver does
not support DiretDraw? Will some kinds of applications or system
components can not run properly ?
Now,I know that rotation and Directdraw can not coexist,but don't know
why, can you explain more ?

Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by sergeir

sergeir
Fri Apr 30 03:33:21 CDT 2004


>-----Original Message-----
>1) Yes, for applications that support DirectDraw. The
general overhead is
>less, and the improvement can sometimes be dramatic.

Dean, thanks a lot ! However I have related question just
about the same case.

What we have:
a device with VIA display adapter and its driver for
Windows CE. That driver supports DirectDraw for CE and
some hardware acceleration of this display adapter in CE
are taken advantage of in VIA display driver.

This device runs thin client and a user runs an
application on server using this thin client conenction
over fast LAN. The application on server uses DrirectDraw
too.

Problem : user complains about very slow performance of an
application, when it runs using this thin client.

Question: does taking advantage of hardware acceleration
in DirectDraw in Windows CE display driver provides any
help for speeding up an application in terminal server
mode which uses DirectDraw too ?

Question In short : are any such DirecttDraw capabilities
of a device running Windows CE are used in terminal server
mode or not ?

Sincerely
Sergei

>Dean Ramsier - eMVP
>Accelent Systems
>http://www.accelent.com
>
>
>"yHuang" <huangyi@bokia.net> wrote in message
>news:559ee802.0404290055.30431399@posting.google.com...
>> Hi.I am using CE.net 4.2 on intel pxa263.
>> The display driver supports screen rotation by porting
the rflat driver.
>> Now,my question is:
>> 1)Will DirectDraw improve the video performance even
without hardware
>acceleration ?
>>
>> 2)Is it possible to develop a driver support both
rotating and DirecDraw?
>> The sample Geode Gxvideo can only support one feature
at the compilation
>time.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
>.
>

Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by Paul

Paul
Fri Apr 30 05:37:50 CDT 2004

"yHuang" <huangyi@bokia.net> wrote in message
news:559ee802.0404291851.5fe1e924@posting.google.com...
> Thank you for the reply.
> And another question:
> What are the impactions on the appilcaiton if the display driver does
> not support DiretDraw? Will some kinds of applications or system
> components can not run properly ?
> Now,I know that rotation and Directdraw can not coexist,but don't know
> why, can you explain more ?

DirectDraw assumes a certain organization of the video memory - in
horizontal lines as CRT displays work. When a driver rotates the screen it
uses a vertical line memory layout which is not compatible with the
DirectDraw memory layout.

Besides that, all device independent bitmaps (Win32 and CE use a DIB engine)
are also stored in horizontal lines. Blitting DIBs to/from a rotated display
is slow or very slow as non-sequential memory access is required leading to
more complex address computing and data cache depletion.

--
Paul Chitescu
pchitescu@null.ro http://pchitescu.null.ro/ ICQ:22641673
Any spammers will be painfully squeezed into /dev/null



Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by Dean

Dean
Fri Apr 30 07:59:30 CDT 2004

Don't know for sure, but I would guess the following:
- I would not expect that the desktop's use of DirectDraw would in any way
impact the CE device. The CE device would have no knowledge of that.
- I would assume that the thin client stack does not use DirectDraw,
although I suppose it's possible.

--
Dean Ramsier - eMVP
Accelent Systems
http://www.accelent.com


"sergeir" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67fc01c42e8d$cb889990$a001280a@phx.gbl...
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >1) Yes, for applications that support DirectDraw. The
> general overhead is
> >less, and the improvement can sometimes be dramatic.
>
> Dean, thanks a lot ! However I have related question just
> about the same case.
>
> What we have:
> a device with VIA display adapter and its driver for
> Windows CE. That driver supports DirectDraw for CE and
> some hardware acceleration of this display adapter in CE
> are taken advantage of in VIA display driver.
>
> This device runs thin client and a user runs an
> application on server using this thin client conenction
> over fast LAN. The application on server uses DrirectDraw
> too.
>
> Problem : user complains about very slow performance of an
> application, when it runs using this thin client.
>
> Question: does taking advantage of hardware acceleration
> in DirectDraw in Windows CE display driver provides any
> help for speeding up an application in terminal server
> mode which uses DirectDraw too ?
>
> Question In short : are any such DirecttDraw capabilities
> of a device running Windows CE are used in terminal server
> mode or not ?
>
> Sincerely
> Sergei
>
> >Dean Ramsier - eMVP
> >Accelent Systems
> >http://www.accelent.com
> >
> >
> >"yHuang" <huangyi@bokia.net> wrote in message
> >news:559ee802.0404290055.30431399@posting.google.com...
> >> Hi.I am using CE.net 4.2 on intel pxa263.
> >> The display driver supports screen rotation by porting
> the rflat driver.
> >> Now,my question is:
> >> 1)Will DirectDraw improve the video performance even
> without hardware
> >acceleration ?
> >>
> >> 2)Is it possible to develop a driver support both
> rotating and DirecDraw?
> >> The sample Geode Gxvideo can only support one feature
> at the compilation
> >time.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >
> >
> >.
> >



Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by Steve

Steve
Fri Apr 30 09:07:35 CDT 2004

Well, yes of course it's going to be slow as the hardware acceleration isn't
actually used in either case. The RDP implementation cannot assume
DirectDraw is available on the CE device. Plus the RDP protocols are
actually platform independent. and thus make no assumption of the
availability of DirectDraw. The display information from the remote machine
is simply packaged up and sent over the network to the terminal for display.
This is true of a windows XP system running RDP connecting to another
Windows XP system and is unrelated to CE in particular.

--
Steve Maillet (eMVP)
EmbeddedFusion
smaillet_AT_EmbeddedFusion_DOT_com



Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by sergeir

sergeir
Wed May 05 01:54:00 CDT 2004

Thank you, Steve, for explanations. We are loosing
customers who are not satisfied with RDP performance with
their applications running in terminal server mode on our
CE-powered devices ( some process control idustrial
application, which draw a lot of diagrams continiously).

So, based on what you have written, one could make the
following conclusion ( correct me if I am wrong) : if you
are going to make and sell Thin Client devices, do not
bother to add to it any hardware accelerating features as
well as any DirectDraw , DirectX etc features to your
platform in PB, since they will just eat up device space
and make no asset to RDP.

As for RDP and CE, we were told by the lost potential
customer, that unlike RDP the Citrix ICA uses not just
bitmaps but some graphic primitives so that speeds up
perfromance slightly, and Sun Ray is yet a lot better in
that sense so they would go with that.

Best regards
Sergei

>-----Original Message-----
>Well, yes of course it's going to be slow as the hardware
acceleration isn't
>actually used in either case. The RDP implementation
cannot assume
>DirectDraw is available on the CE device. Plus the RDP
protocols are
>actually platform independent. and thus make no
assumption of the
>availability of DirectDraw. The display information from
the remote machine
>is simply packaged up and sent over the network to the
terminal for display.
>This is true of a windows XP system running RDP
connecting to another
>Windows XP system and is unrelated to CE in particular.
>
>--
>Steve Maillet (eMVP)
>EmbeddedFusion
>smaillet_AT_EmbeddedFusion_DOT_com
>
>
>.
>

Re: can CE display driver support both rotation and directdraw? by Gary

Gary
Mon May 17 14:50:36 CDT 2004

That's not entirely correct. DirectDraw and hardware acceleration are not
the same thing.

You can add hardware acceleration for GDI operations such as pattern fills,
line drawing, blitting, etc. which will greatly improve RDP performance.
For example, if you compare the Permedia 3 driver, the TVIA driver, and the
flat driver on the same CEPC, you will see significant RDP performance
differences running Winbench over RDP. The differences between the drivers
is primarily in what they accelerate in hardware.

If you look in the sample shipped source for the TVIA, you'll see that in
the BltPrepare the driver determines whether or not the operation can be
done in hardware and replaces the function pointer with a pointer which uses
the hardware if it can be done.

This is by no means a complete list, just a list of operations which from my
research i've found that can make a difference with RDP performance.

BitBlt with a sourcecopy rop
MaskBlt with an AAF0 ROP
Patblt with a solid color
Patblt with an F0 rop
PatBlt with a 5A rop
PatBlt with a 55 rop
BitBlt with a B8 rop
horizontal and vertical lines
BitBlt with an 88 rop

If you're seeing performance issues, you can use dispperf to see what
operations are being hit the most in the display driver, from there you can
determine whether or not the operation is going to hardware, an EMUL
function, or the generic blitting function. The generic blitting function
is slow, so if you have a significant number of operations going to that,
then you should look into adding an EMUL function to accelerate the most
important operations if hardware cannot be used.

Hope that helps.

Gary Daniels
Windows CE GDI Test

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. © 2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights
reserved.

"sergeir" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:886501c4326d$bece1f20$a301280a@phx.gbl...
> Thank you, Steve, for explanations. We are loosing
> customers who are not satisfied with RDP performance with
> their applications running in terminal server mode on our
> CE-powered devices ( some process control idustrial
> application, which draw a lot of diagrams continiously).
>
> So, based on what you have written, one could make the
> following conclusion ( correct me if I am wrong) : if you
> are going to make and sell Thin Client devices, do not
> bother to add to it any hardware accelerating features as
> well as any DirectDraw , DirectX etc features to your
> platform in PB, since they will just eat up device space
> and make no asset to RDP.
>
> As for RDP and CE, we were told by the lost potential
> customer, that unlike RDP the Citrix ICA uses not just
> bitmaps but some graphic primitives so that speeds up
> perfromance slightly, and Sun Ray is yet a lot better in
> that sense so they would go with that.
>
> Best regards
> Sergei
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Well, yes of course it's going to be slow as the hardware
> acceleration isn't
> >actually used in either case. The RDP implementation
> cannot assume
> >DirectDraw is available on the CE device. Plus the RDP
> protocols are
> >actually platform independent. and thus make no
> assumption of the
> >availability of DirectDraw. The display information from
> the remote machine
> >is simply packaged up and sent over the network to the
> terminal for display.
> >This is true of a windows XP system running RDP
> connecting to another
> >Windows XP system and is unrelated to CE in particular.
> >
> >--
> >Steve Maillet (eMVP)
> >EmbeddedFusion
> >smaillet_AT_EmbeddedFusion_DOT_com
> >
> >
> >.
> >