Hello,

We have two CompactFlash interfaces in our design - one internal to the
box (that will have a storage card permanently in it), and the other
external (that will sometimes have a storage card (using ATADISK) but
will also support IO cards of various types.

My question is this. Is it possible to configure this system such that
the internal CompactFlash uses TFAT, but the external CompactFlash uses
"normal" FAT?
Ideally, I'd rather use TFAT in both instances, but I understand there
are interoperability issues with TFAT and desktop windows OSes. Hence
I'd prefer to stick with FAT for the external slot, since our users will
be regularly transferring data to PCs via cards inserted in that slot.

Is there a way to massage the registry settings to allow this?

Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by Nac

Nac
Wed Jul 28 02:56:51 CDT 2004


"Andrew Worsley" <Andrew.Worsley@nospam.4.me> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b71e90acee9763d9896b0@msnews.microsoft.com...
> Hello,
>
> We have two CompactFlash interfaces in our design - one internal to the
> box (that will have a storage card permanently in it), and the other
> external (that will sometimes have a storage card (using ATADISK) but
> will also support IO cards of various types.
>
> My question is this. Is it possible to configure this system such that
> the internal CompactFlash uses TFAT, but the external CompactFlash uses
> "normal" FAT?
> Ideally, I'd rather use TFAT in both instances, but I understand there
> are interoperability issues with TFAT and desktop windows OSes. Hence
> I'd prefer to stick with FAT for the external slot, since our users will
> be regularly transferring data to PCs via cards inserted in that slot.
>
> Is there a way to massage the registry settings to allow this?

No problem; if you add TFAT to the platform, the decision as to what is
FAT/TFAT is made by the driver according to how the media is formated; just
format the internal card as TFAT and the external on as FAT.

This is what we're doing with a similar device; the only pain is production
formating the internal cards, which can only be done in a CE device not a
PC!



Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by A

A
Wed Jul 28 08:04:19 CDT 2004

Wouldn't it be great if someone wrote a PC based TFAT driver?



"Nac McFeegle" <Nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%238ZnnhHdEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> "Andrew Worsley" <Andrew.Worsley@nospam.4.me> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1b71e90acee9763d9896b0@msnews.microsoft.com...
> > Hello,
> >
> > We have two CompactFlash interfaces in our design - one internal to the
> > box (that will have a storage card permanently in it), and the other
> > external (that will sometimes have a storage card (using ATADISK) but
> > will also support IO cards of various types.
> >
> > My question is this. Is it possible to configure this system such that
> > the internal CompactFlash uses TFAT, but the external CompactFlash uses
> > "normal" FAT?
> > Ideally, I'd rather use TFAT in both instances, but I understand there
> > are interoperability issues with TFAT and desktop windows OSes. Hence
> > I'd prefer to stick with FAT for the external slot, since our users will
> > be regularly transferring data to PCs via cards inserted in that slot.
> >
> > Is there a way to massage the registry settings to allow this?
>
> No problem; if you add TFAT to the platform, the decision as to what is
> FAT/TFAT is made by the driver according to how the media is formated;
just
> format the internal card as TFAT and the external on as FAT.
>
> This is what we're doing with a similar device; the only pain is
production
> formating the internal cards, which can only be done in a CE device not a
> PC!
>
>



Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by Reid

Reid
Wed Jul 28 12:13:21 CDT 2004

Hello Nac, Hello Andrew,
Question Nac - with your internal CF disk formatted as TFAT, what do you
use to boot your system? I should first ask if your system is x86 based.
We use the WinCE BIOS Bootloader to boot our system, but have never been
able to get this to work with a pure TFAT formatted CF disk. I am not
exactly sure what causes this problem, but I suspect the DOS based tool for
installing the Bootloader on the disk does not work for TFAT, hence the BIOS
does not correctly recognize the Bootloader at boot time. Did you encounter
a similar problem, and if so, how did you work-around it?
BTW - you mentioned that production formatting of the CF disks is a bear
with TFAT since they must be done on a WinCE system. Here is a tip - you
could use a CF disk bulk copy utility to capture an image of a TFAT
formatted CF disk, and then just re-install this bulk image on each new
production disk - all from the convenience of a standard desktop system.
There a few utilities out there that can capture the raw, byte-for-byte,
image of a CF disk, and save this to a file on your desktop. Zantham makes
one utility for this, and the disk editing tool "Winhex" also has this
feature. Hope this helps.

Reid



Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by Ten

Ten
Wed Jul 28 15:03:26 CDT 2004

Not so. The TFAT lives on the CF itself. You should be able to do
something like this. Note this assumes a single partitioned store using all
avaiable space for the file system. You can do this for multiply
partitioned drives but you'll have to walk the partition table and it gets a
little more complicated (but not much!).

1. Take a fresh CF card and format it with TFAT.
2. Take the TFAT CF card and insert it into a CF reader attached to a PC.
Make sure the PC is not XP because XP will try to format the card FAT32. I
suggest 2k or NT. 98 may also work.
3. use HexWorkshop 4.2 to Open the drive.
4. Save the first 2000 or so sectors from the CF to disk. If you research
the TFAT file system you may be able to save much less than this to get the
partition and allocation tables. For example, on my 1 GB CF, I can clone a
FAT file system to another card with as few as 300 sectors.
5. Remove the CF
6. Insert another blank CF into the CF reader.
7. Use Hex Workshop to "Restore Sectors" to the new CF.
8. Test the card in a CE device.

If this works, you can do it programatically with Win32 calls.

The downside to this is each CF is a clone of the others my guess is this is
probably not a problem. If it is, a little knowledge about the TFAT
structure and a short console app and/or VB script can put a new volume
string into the sector dump file before you restore it to the next CF card.

Nick.

"Nac McFeegle" <Nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%238ZnnhHdEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> "Andrew Worsley" <Andrew.Worsley@nospam.4.me> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1b71e90acee9763d9896b0@msnews.microsoft.com...
> > Hello,
> >
> > We have two CompactFlash interfaces in our design - one internal to the
> > box (that will have a storage card permanently in it), and the other
> > external (that will sometimes have a storage card (using ATADISK) but
> > will also support IO cards of various types.
> >
> > My question is this. Is it possible to configure this system such that
> > the internal CompactFlash uses TFAT, but the external CompactFlash uses
> > "normal" FAT?
> > Ideally, I'd rather use TFAT in both instances, but I understand there
> > are interoperability issues with TFAT and desktop windows OSes. Hence
> > I'd prefer to stick with FAT for the external slot, since our users will
> > be regularly transferring data to PCs via cards inserted in that slot.
> >
> > Is there a way to massage the registry settings to allow this?
>
> No problem; if you add TFAT to the platform, the decision as to what is
> FAT/TFAT is made by the driver according to how the media is formated;
just
> format the internal card as TFAT and the external on as FAT.
>
> This is what we're doing with a similar device; the only pain is
production
> formating the internal cards, which can only be done in a CE device not a
> PC!
>
>



Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by Andrew

Andrew
Thu Jul 29 15:46:58 CDT 2004

Thanks all.

Just to check...

Presumably I would need to set up the TFAT registry flags to prevent
auto-formatting, right? Otherwise whenever someone put a blank (or
corrupted) CF card in the external slot, it would end up formatted as
TFAT. Or is there a way to force normal FAT formatting on an external
slot only?

Re: TFAT and FAT at the same time? by Steve

Steve
Tue Aug 03 15:34:10 CDT 2004

YOU can set up your device profiles to use whatever you want as a
default.For FAT/TFAT there is a flag that indicates if it should autoformat
with TFAT or just fat.

--
Steve Maillet (eMVP)
smaillet at EmbeddedFusion dot com