How do you configure Windows 2000 server not to be the DHCP server

How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
being the DHCP server?

In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
those in the domain go through the server.

It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
is not running DHCP.

Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?

Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
2000 server help fix this problem?


/vfclists

Meinolf
Mon Apr 28 23:27:36 PDT 2008

Hello vfclists,

If you have a server then use the server for all domain services, also for
DHCP and disable DHCP on the router. That clients will not connect correctly
has the reason that they use the routers DNS settings and not the domain
DNS settings, i assume. To resolve the problems, use the server for DHCP
and DNS, configure the clients to point to the server and in ther servers
DNS management console configure a forwarder to the ISP's DNS server, so
they have internet access and no problems using the domain ressources.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm

> How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
> being the DHCP server?
>
> In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
> link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
> those in the domain go through the server.
>
> It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
> is not running DHCP.
>
> Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
> can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?
>
> Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
> 2000 server help fix this problem?
>
> /vfclists
>

Phillip
Tue Apr 29 06:59:38 PDT 2008

You don't. DHCP Discovery is broadcast based,..you cannot specify the use
of a particular DHCP over another.

Forget the DHCP on the "router"

Use DHCP on the Windows Server,...it is a 1,000 times more "capable".

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

"vfclists" <vfclists@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:0aade569-914c-423b-b6c5-c2a988f2198d@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
> being the DHCP server?
>
> In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
> link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
> those in the domain go through the server.
>
> It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
> is not running DHCP.
>
> Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
> can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?
>
> Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
> 2000 server help fix this problem?
>
>
> /vfclists

Keith
Tue Apr 29 17:30:00 PDT 2008

Quick question regarding this issue: I just installed a new Watchguard
Firebox Firewall/Router and now my Windows 2000 Server running DHCP server no
longer hands out IP addresses to the clients. If I turn on the DHCP on the
router the router hands out IP addresses, but when I turn it off on the
router the clients don't "see" the Windows 2000 DHCP Serve. Could this device
be blocking these DHCP requests from the clients?

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> You don't. DHCP Discovery is broadcast based,..you cannot specify the use
> of a particular DHCP over another.
>
> Forget the DHCP on the "router"
>
> Use DHCP on the Windows Server,...it is a 1,000 times more "capable".
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> "vfclists" <vfclists@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:0aade569-914c-423b-b6c5-c2a988f2198d@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> > How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
> > being the DHCP server?
> >
> > In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
> > link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
> > those in the domain go through the server.
> >
> > It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
> > is not running DHCP.
> >
> > Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
> > can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?
> >
> > Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
> > 2000 server help fix this problem?
> >
> >
> > /vfclists
>
>
>

Phillip
Wed Apr 30 06:49:55 PDT 2008

If the WG is not "between" the users and the Server then it cannot possibly
"block" anything.

What probably happened was that the WG had the DHCP enabled the first time
you fired it up. Because it is a simple "hardware device" it is
"fast",...therefore it probably started responding to clients DHCP Queries
before the Windows box did (first come-first serve),...since machines will
always try the same DHCP that they had "last time" they keep trying the WG
from then on. Even if the WG has the DHCP turned off,..the device is "still
alive" at the TCP/IP level,..therefore the Clients consider it to still be
there and they keep trying to get their config from it and keep waiting for
it to give a reply to them,...so they don't do another broadcast to find a
new DHCP.

That of course is just my "guess",...I cannot prove that is what's really
happening.

You'll probably have to "wait it out" and maybe even do manual
Release/Renews on the clients to get them to go back the the Windows box.

Moral of the story,..."Never ever ever ever ever start up a device on the
LAN that has a DHCP Service enabled on it unless you actually intend for it
the be the DHCP Server for the LAN. Always start it up off the LAN, disable
the DHCP, then put it on the LAN.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

"Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D182FC0E-AE4D-49CC-9D52-A247F43A3784@microsoft.com...
> Quick question regarding this issue: I just installed a new Watchguard
> Firebox Firewall/Router and now my Windows 2000 Server running DHCP server
> no
> longer hands out IP addresses to the clients. If I turn on the DHCP on the
> router the router hands out IP addresses, but when I turn it off on the
> router the clients don't "see" the Windows 2000 DHCP Serve. Could this
> device
> be blocking these DHCP requests from the clients?
>
> "Phillip Windell" wrote:
>
>> You don't. DHCP Discovery is broadcast based,..you cannot specify the
>> use
>> of a particular DHCP over another.
>>
>> Forget the DHCP on the "router"
>>
>> Use DHCP on the Windows Server,...it is a 1,000 times more "capable".
>>
>> --
>> Phillip Windell
>> www.wandtv.com
>>
>> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
>> Microsoft,
>> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "vfclists" <vfclists@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0aade569-914c-423b-b6c5-c2a988f2198d@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> > How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
>> > being the DHCP server?
>> >
>> > In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
>> > link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
>> > those in the domain go through the server.
>> >
>> > It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
>> > is not running DHCP.
>> >
>> > Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
>> > can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?
>> >
>> > Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
>> > 2000 server help fix this problem?
>> >
>> >
>> > /vfclists
>>
>>
>>

Keith
Wed Apr 30 09:02:00 PDT 2008

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
I actually had the DHCP Server turned off before I put it on the network.
That's what signaled me there was something wrong when clients weren't
getting IP addresses. After trying to debug it with Watchguard tech support
(with no luck), I ended up having to enable DHCP in order for clients to get
an IP address after their original IP addresse lease expired.

The users and servers are on a switch which goes to the firewall which in
turn goes out to the cable modem, so I "think" I have it setup right???

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> If the WG is not "between" the users and the Server then it cannot possibly
> "block" anything.
>
> What probably happened was that the WG had the DHCP enabled the first time
> you fired it up. Because it is a simple "hardware device" it is
> "fast",...therefore it probably started responding to clients DHCP Queries
> before the Windows box did (first come-first serve),...since machines will
> always try the same DHCP that they had "last time" they keep trying the WG
> from then on. Even if the WG has the DHCP turned off,..the device is "still
> alive" at the TCP/IP level,..therefore the Clients consider it to still be
> there and they keep trying to get their config from it and keep waiting for
> it to give a reply to them,...so they don't do another broadcast to find a
> new DHCP.
>
> That of course is just my "guess",...I cannot prove that is what's really
> happening.
>
> You'll probably have to "wait it out" and maybe even do manual
> Release/Renews on the clients to get them to go back the the Windows box.
>
> Moral of the story,..."Never ever ever ever ever start up a device on the
> LAN that has a DHCP Service enabled on it unless you actually intend for it
> the be the DHCP Server for the LAN. Always start it up off the LAN, disable
> the DHCP, then put it on the LAN.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> "Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:D182FC0E-AE4D-49CC-9D52-A247F43A3784@microsoft.com...
> > Quick question regarding this issue: I just installed a new Watchguard
> > Firebox Firewall/Router and now my Windows 2000 Server running DHCP server
> > no
> > longer hands out IP addresses to the clients. If I turn on the DHCP on the
> > router the router hands out IP addresses, but when I turn it off on the
> > router the clients don't "see" the Windows 2000 DHCP Serve. Could this
> > device
> > be blocking these DHCP requests from the clients?
> >
> > "Phillip Windell" wrote:
> >
> >> You don't. DHCP Discovery is broadcast based,..you cannot specify the
> >> use
> >> of a particular DHCP over another.
> >>
> >> Forget the DHCP on the "router"
> >>
> >> Use DHCP on the Windows Server,...it is a 1,000 times more "capable".
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phillip Windell
> >> www.wandtv.com
> >>
> >> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> >> Microsoft,
> >> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> >> -----------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> "vfclists" <vfclists@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:0aade569-914c-423b-b6c5-c2a988f2198d@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > How do you configure Windows 2000 server to operate normally without
> >> > being the DHCP server?
> >> >
> >> > In an nutshell I want machines which are not members of the domain to
> >> > link to the internet directly from the routers DHCP server, where as
> >> > those in the domain go through the server.
> >> >
> >> > It appears that systems can't find the server properly when the server
> >> > is not running DHCP.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a way of setting up a router so that machines in the domain
> >> > can link to the server properly without using static IP addresses?
> >> >
> >> > Will setting up the WINS server on the router to point to the Windows
> >> > 2000 server help fix this problem?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > /vfclists
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

Phillip
Wed Apr 30 11:19:58 PDT 2008

"Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:927003F4-044D-467B-A300-AA0FEF9136C6@microsoft.com...
> getting IP addresses. After trying to debug it with Watchguard tech
> support
> (with no luck), I ended up having to enable DHCP in order for clients to
> get
> an IP address after their original IP addresse lease expired.

That probably made things even worse now than what it would have been
otherwise. You should have called MS to troubleshoot the DHCP situation
rather than call WG to troubleshoot a box that wouldn't even logically be
involved.

Anyway..

What's the LAN's routing scheme?
How many subnets?
If multiple subnets I assume there is a LAN Router?
Is the Switch really a switch?,...or a Router/Switch combination in the same
"box" (aka Layer3 Switch).

I am totally blind here,...without knowing what you have, where you have it,
and how you use it, there is nothing I can suggest.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Keith
Wed Apr 30 12:11:03 PDT 2008

It's a very simple network. 1 subnet. (2) Switches. (1) Firewall.

The Windows DHCP Server was working fine handing out IP addresses before I
put on this firewall device.

I just installed this software called DHCPExplorer on a client
(which discovers DHCP servers on the local subnet) and the client only sees
the Watchguard DHCP server - not the Windows 2000 DHCP Server.

I also installed it on the Windows DHCP Server just to see if it can find
itself and it did find itself as a DHCP Server which leads me to think the
firewall is blocking these broadcasts somehow on the LAN.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> "Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:927003F4-044D-467B-A300-AA0FEF9136C6@microsoft.com...
> > getting IP addresses. After trying to debug it with Watchguard tech
> > support
> > (with no luck), I ended up having to enable DHCP in order for clients to
> > get
> > an IP address after their original IP addresse lease expired.
>
> That probably made things even worse now than what it would have been
> otherwise. You should have called MS to troubleshoot the DHCP situation
> rather than call WG to troubleshoot a box that wouldn't even logically be
> involved.
>
> Anyway..
>
> What's the LAN's routing scheme?
> How many subnets?
> If multiple subnets I assume there is a LAN Router?
> Is the Switch really a switch?,...or a Router/Switch combination in the same
> "box" (aka Layer3 Switch).
>
> I am totally blind here,...without knowing what you have, where you have it,
> and how you use it, there is nothing I can suggest.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Phillip
Wed Apr 30 13:16:59 PDT 2008

"Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2FB84CBC-9FE5-4CAB-9463-9C05C8552081@microsoft.com...
> It's a very simple network. 1 subnet. (2) Switches. (1) Firewall.

> I also installed it on the Windows DHCP Server just to see if it can find
> itself and it did find itself as a DHCP Server which leads me to think the
> firewall is blocking these broadcasts somehow on the LAN.

That just isn't possible. The WG cannot block something that never goes
through it in the first place. I've been through about 3 WG boxes and there
just ins't any way they could have done that.

A Windows DHCP Service needs to be authorized within Active Directory before
it is allowed to grant addresses. Maybe the authorization got fouled up
somehow.

Turn off the DHCP on the WG
Un-authorize the DHCP Service
Then re-authorize it.
Run IPconfig /Release on the Client.
Run IPconfig /Renew on the Client.

Monitoring and Troubleshooting the DHCP Server
http://www.tech-faq.com/monitoring-and-troubleshooting-the-dhcp-server.shtml

I checked out DHCP Explorer. It doesn't seem to do anything that IPConfig
doesn't do. It did not find all of my DHCP Servers and "list them out" as I
expected,..it only showed the one that my machine has already been
using,..so,..it really isn't any help unless you run it with the WG's DHCP
turned off.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Keith
Wed Apr 30 13:49:01 PDT 2008

I totally agree with you regarding the firewall not even in the picture with
this issue, but that was the only thing I could think of since it was working
great until I introduced this new device.

I was also suspect with DHCPExplorer.

I just tried your steps/suggestions and still no IP address for the client
unless I turn on the WG DHCP Server. I'll look at your link to see if that
helps any. Otherwise, if you could think of anything else, I'd really
appreciate it.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> "Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:2FB84CBC-9FE5-4CAB-9463-9C05C8552081@microsoft.com...
> > It's a very simple network. 1 subnet. (2) Switches. (1) Firewall.
>
> > I also installed it on the Windows DHCP Server just to see if it can find
> > itself and it did find itself as a DHCP Server which leads me to think the
> > firewall is blocking these broadcasts somehow on the LAN.
>
> That just isn't possible. The WG cannot block something that never goes
> through it in the first place. I've been through about 3 WG boxes and there
> just ins't any way they could have done that.
>
> A Windows DHCP Service needs to be authorized within Active Directory before
> it is allowed to grant addresses. Maybe the authorization got fouled up
> somehow.
>
> Turn off the DHCP on the WG
> Un-authorize the DHCP Service
> Then re-authorize it.
> Run IPconfig /Release on the Client.
> Run IPconfig /Renew on the Client.
>
> Monitoring and Troubleshooting the DHCP Server
> http://www.tech-faq.com/monitoring-and-troubleshooting-the-dhcp-server.shtml
>
> I checked out DHCP Explorer. It doesn't seem to do anything that IPConfig
> doesn't do. It did not find all of my DHCP Servers and "list them out" as I
> expected,..it only showed the one that my machine has already been
> using,..so,..it really isn't any help unless you run it with the WG's DHCP
> turned off.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Phillip
Wed Apr 30 14:09:28 PDT 2008

"Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E01A6CFC-480E-4D1C-9F80-AC39575A7174@microsoft.com...
>I totally agree with you regarding the firewall not even in the picture
>with
> this issue, but that was the only thing I could think of since it was
> working
> great until I introduced this new device.
>
> I was also suspect with DHCPExplorer.
>
> I just tried your steps/suggestions and still no IP address for the client
> unless I turn on the WG DHCP Server. I'll look at your link to see if that
> helps any. Otherwise, if you could think of anything else, I'd really
> appreciate it.

The article I linked to is all I can think to try right now. It's kind of
long so I only skimmed through it, but it looks to be thourgh in covering
all sides of things.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Keith
Wed Apr 30 16:16:00 PDT 2008

Here's something wierd. I was looking at the DHCP logs on the Windows Server
and some clients are still getting their IP address renewed that are on the
list of Address Leases of the Windows DHCP Server. Is that because the
client's ipconfig says it's DHCP server is the Windows DHCP Server and not
the WG DHCP Server? Does this get "reset" when a machine is turned off and
then on?

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> "Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:E01A6CFC-480E-4D1C-9F80-AC39575A7174@microsoft.com...
> >I totally agree with you regarding the firewall not even in the picture
> >with
> > this issue, but that was the only thing I could think of since it was
> > working
> > great until I introduced this new device.
> >
> > I was also suspect with DHCPExplorer.
> >
> > I just tried your steps/suggestions and still no IP address for the client
> > unless I turn on the WG DHCP Server. I'll look at your link to see if that
> > helps any. Otherwise, if you could think of anything else, I'd really
> > appreciate it.
>
> The article I linked to is all I can think to try right now. It's kind of
> long so I only skimmed through it, but it looks to be thourgh in covering
> all sides of things.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Keith
Wed Apr 30 17:26:00 PDT 2008

FYI - I just setup another DHCP Server on a Windows 2003 Server in the domain
and if I turn off the WG DHCP Server and release and renew a clients IP, it
obtains an IP address from the new Windows 2003 DHCP Server.

So, I'm concluding that the Windows 2000 DHCP Server is corrupt and won't
lease out any new clients, but will renew any existing clients in it's
database. I'm going to just release and renew any leftover DHCP clients on
the 2000 DHCP Server and then uninstall DHCP Server and reinstall to see it
that fixes the issue.

Thanks again for all the help. It's nice to bounce off ideas/problems with
another sometimes. Let me know if you think that's not a good idea.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> "Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:E01A6CFC-480E-4D1C-9F80-AC39575A7174@microsoft.com...
> >I totally agree with you regarding the firewall not even in the picture
> >with
> > this issue, but that was the only thing I could think of since it was
> > working
> > great until I introduced this new device.
> >
> > I was also suspect with DHCPExplorer.
> >
> > I just tried your steps/suggestions and still no IP address for the client
> > unless I turn on the WG DHCP Server. I'll look at your link to see if that
> > helps any. Otherwise, if you could think of anything else, I'd really
> > appreciate it.
>
> The article I linked to is all I can think to try right now. It's kind of
> long so I only skimmed through it, but it looks to be thourgh in covering
> all sides of things.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Phillip
Fri May 02 06:48:39 PDT 2008

"Keith" <Keith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:EC32F7F2-75D1-4454-A156-06F6C216991F@microsoft.com...
> FYI - I just setup another DHCP Server on a Windows 2003 Server in the
> domain
> and if I turn off the WG DHCP Server and release and renew a clients IP,
> it
> obtains an IP address from the new Windows 2003 DHCP Server.
>
> So, I'm concluding that the Windows 2000 DHCP Server is corrupt and won't
> lease out any new clients, but will renew any existing clients in it's
> database. I'm going to just release and renew any leftover DHCP clients on
> the 2000 DHCP Server and then uninstall DHCP Server and reinstall to see
> it
> that fixes the issue.

That sounds fine to me.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------