Hi:

I'm willing to have any and all answers related, but I'm hoping that someone
from MS can confirm the answers. (The following info is in general terms
because the actual legal situation is complicated and ever changing and
developing).

Here in Canada we are slow to respond to Copyright and general usage rights
for copying media to our PCs. It seems that good or bad our government has
taken the slow road of looking at the issue from both a protectionist and a
perceived fairness state. As with most lobbyists, there are more players
than seats available. So here I am waiting to see if I can copy and what I
can copy. We are a strange lot here in Canuck land; we have laws that allow
us to download music with P2P and online retailers, but restrictions for
copying do not legalize using hard drives or MP3 players for some personal
use (copying) music or video file sharing . Copies from records, tapes, and
CDs to each other are OK as long as the PC/MP3 player is left out of the
loop. At least that is what the Copyright Board of Canada has informed me.
Basically, no copying of records, tapes, and CD media to the PC/MP3 player .
. . that is until Canada's Justice system makes a decision for or against.

It is because the Music Industry is compensated by paying extra when buying
CDs, Tapes, CD recording media; but not IPods, hard drives, memory cards,
and the like. It would appear that paid for downloads are OK but even that
is not written in judicial stone.
Interestingly, manufacturers and retailers are, along with the artists,
taking different sides on the issue . . . they often don't agree within
their own groups . . . politics rule . . . unfortunately, it's the old
story, "Be careful what you wish for . . . " , everyone stands to lose.
Fair compensation is not a bad thing when it's fair. If tariffs are added to
the hard drives and memory . . . problem solved, but for those who don't
use hard drives and memory for music . . . problem created.

Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide it's
OK to copy to our PC but not upload (with or without our knowledge of the
transmission) . . . I would like to know if Windows Media Player/Center
sends the music file and Album artwork back to either Microsoft, AMG, or any
other recipient. Or is it simply data that cannot be resurrected as music
and art? This could be an issue.

Also, is there a way to embed copyright or non-copyright credits to Media
Player's active album art if created or copied by one self ?

I am, along with others, doing my part to make the legal system work for the
user as well as the provider. As a former broadcaster, I have been in
contact with various associations and government officials with this
discussion. Thanks for any help.

- As for my comments, please don't flame me with a wrong or right way to go
discussion . . . I know that everyone has an opinion on the matters of
Intellectual Property rights. I'm only trying to separate the mess and I am
only relating this to Media Player. Thanks.

- I only wish we had shown up at the Boston Tea Party.

G Wiz

Re: What music and art files upload ? by Neil

Neil
Wed Apr 30 15:04:24 PDT 2008

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:37:50 -0500, "G Wiz" <Nothere_@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide it's
>OK to copy to our PC but not upload (with or without our knowledge of the
>transmission) . . . I would like to know if Windows Media Player/Center
>sends the music file and Album artwork back to either Microsoft, AMG, or any
>other recipient. Or is it simply data that cannot be resurrected as music
>and art? This could be an issue.


I think there is as you noted, a separate copyright issue about the
album artwork other than that granted for the music content.

AFAIK the player never uploads user artwork, although it used to (and
still may sometimes) upload track information if that's not been
provided already by a commercial music provider like AMG.

Like many people, I find it irritating that there doesn't seem to be a
route to get higher quality / size artwork at present, I guess that's
down to the over-restrictive US copyright legislation.

AFAIK you should be able to add your own artwork to the album folders
by adding a folder.jpg containing the intended image, if you happen to
have a better quality image (e.g. from iTunes or AMazon web service)

HTH
Cheers - Neil
------------------------------------------------
Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs

Re: What music and art files upload ? by Neil

Neil
Thu May 01 13:56:39 PDT 2008

I appreciate your concerns and thoroughness - this was a topic of
(brief) discussion at a recent MS summit - but as I'm a web developer
I haven't got anything more useful to add from that viewpoint, as the
data isn't usefully accessible for me to make more of it ;-)

Cheers - Neil

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:19:13 -0500, "G Wiz" <Nothere_@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Thanks, Neil for your prompt answer.
>
>Is it any wonder why records refuse to die ;-) It seems that every source
>has it's own set of rules or a collective set of regulations that have to be
>weeded out accordingly.
>
>I know that most people don't care or have not taken the time to find out
>the possible repercussions of illegal or incorrect copying. For many, at
>least south of my border, it's much simpler. For we Canucks, it's not. It's
>sort of like using a tool without having read the manual. Then one day you
>find out the tool won't do what you want it to or you may find out it will
>do more. On a really bad day it won't work at all.
>
>As far as music goes . . . the problems are simple compared to graphics and
>photos. Unfortunately, one has to hope that credit or ownership is what it
>says it is. Often it is not.
>
>I'm still of the group, having been a professional with 29 years hands on
>audio and video, both as an operator and Producer/Director, that believes in
>some leeway for non-commercial use. If only for simplicity reasons. I still
>buy quality media for enjoyment and I am sure there are plenty of
>contributors to support those that require it. Still, I don't write the
>rules. And I don't create new technology to replace the current or older
>technology.
>
>I have had luck with adding my own album art, but a right click for
>properties to show credits would be advantageous and I am not sure how to do
>it otherwise in Media Center other than on the original pre-album pasting.
>It seems to be an absolute requirement for one to use even a permissive work
>so there is need for such a thing on the album art once completed. I did
>find some place in the Advanced Tag Editor and tab 'Pictures' that will
>allow some info to be typed. But, I doubt that would do it for others to
>access the credit, and to be acceptable need be. I don't know how it works
>or what the ramifications are from online stores and providers as far as
>giving and accessing credit goes. I don't see any related online store or
>provider copyright info in those tabs. I'm of the belief that fair use in
>the States takes care of it, we don't have a fair use ruling in Canada yet
>and may never have such a thing like other countries.
>
>If Microsoft and the media providers could make the copyright issue easily
>available for all to see and use we would not be guessing. If the
>regulations and rules were simplified they could be attached to the files.
>Novel idea, don't ya think? I guess that's why "ignorance of the law is no
>excuse" takes precedence. I think I know why that law was made.
>
>I sure would prefer a larger album cover upon playback while still keeping
>the normal smaller size original (I'm using 202 X 200 pixels most often for
>originals . . . but it can vary depending on what I can get). At times I
>have taken to photograph my own CD covers then reduced them, Neil. Sometimes
>this works better . . . sometimes not if there is a better resolution from
>an Internet source, albeit smaller. I also have a new scanner, but have yet
>to use it.
>
>Incidentally, Neil, I have taken time to read U.S., Canadian, Aussie,
>British, Swiss, and French copyright rulings (briefly of course), and Canada
>seems to be the most restrictive for the time being. Some have interpreted
>that to not be the case; however, because there are no laws confirmed in
>some areas of copying concern . . . it presently leads downloading and
>storage open to interpretation and lawyers. Phooey! (Nothing against
>lawyers, just the bundle of unnecessary profitable jargon gunk). We should
>know before the landing on Mars what will be the new rulings for copying,
>Media Player included. That's if all of the appeals cease to keep things at
>a crawl.
>
>Thanks Neil, once again for your help. I hope I have shed some light on the
>reality.
>
>- G Wiz
>
>
>
>
>"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:h9sh141o6q6armt31rn1p7f3pngdco8jsd@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:37:50 -0500, "G Wiz" <Nothere_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide
>>>it's
>>>OK to copy to our PC but not upload (with or without our knowledge of the
>>>transmission) . . . I would like to know if Windows Media Player/Center
>>>sends the music file and Album artwork back to either Microsoft, AMG, or
>>>any
>>>other recipient. Or is it simply data that cannot be resurrected as music
>>>and art? This could be an issue.
>>
>>
>> I think there is as you noted, a separate copyright issue about the
>> album artwork other than that granted for the music content.
>>
>> AFAIK the player never uploads user artwork, although it used to (and
>> still may sometimes) upload track information if that's not been
>> provided already by a commercial music provider like AMG.
>>
>> Like many people, I find it irritating that there doesn't seem to be a
>> route to get higher quality / size artwork at present, I guess that's
>> down to the over-restrictive US copyright legislation.
>>
>> AFAIK you should be able to add your own artwork to the album folders
>> by adding a folder.jpg containing the intended image, if you happen to
>> have a better quality image (e.g. from iTunes or AMazon web service)
>>
>> HTH
>> Cheers - Neil
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs
------------------------------------------------
Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs