64 bit Workstation suggestions.

Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation?
I checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty
pricey. I want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would
like to start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices
are a bit limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit
programs properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on
this "test drive" machine.

Regards;

John

Andre
Wed Nov 02 11:10:39 CST 2005

Then you wouldn't want a workstation in the first place. Workstations tend
to be for technical environments and tend to be expensive. In your case you
want something you can afford and be able to do testing with. I would
suggest you check out the HP Pavillion desktops. All 64 bit machines can
handle 32 bit programs, 64 bit processors from AMD and Intel run 32 bit
Windows XP which runs 32 bit software just fine. Running 32 bit software on
64 bit Windows is another story, most applications will run just fine with
the exception of those that 16-bit and 32-bit applications that use 16 bit
installers. You will likely encounter
hardware problems with Printers, Scanners and some digital cameras that use
Firewire. I would recommend you give XP Pro x64 a try in a dual boot
configuration first before committing and its also recommended you keep back
XP x86 in a dual boot configuration just in case you encounter problems with
legacy applications.

Download the trial:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/trial.mspx

Also check out the following post by Charlie Russel on his website about
resolving Printer Driver issues on x64:
http://msmvps.com/xperts64/archive/2005/06/18/54021.aspx
http://msmvps.com/xperts64/archive/2005/08/05/61685.aspx


a1130e
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?series_name=a1130e_series&catLevel=2&category=desktops/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_store

d4100e
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?series_name=d4100e_series&catLevel=2&category=desktops/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_store
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
> checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
> want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
> start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
> limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
> properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
> drive" machine.
>
> Regards;
>
> John

Charlie
Wed Nov 02 12:26:49 CST 2005

Personally, if cost is a factor, I'd build it yourself. Let's you control
the tradeoffs between functionality and cost. And also lets you make
decisions based on what drivers are available. The real problem with the
current crop of 64-bit machines is they are either higher end workstations,
or they do NOT include x64 Edition and don't have good driver support, IME.
But the better mobo mfg's are doing a better job of providing x64 drivers.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

John John wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation?
> I checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty
> pricey. I want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would
> like to start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices
> are a bit limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit
> programs properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on
> this "test drive" machine.
>
> Regards;
>
> John

wewa
Wed Nov 02 13:14:38 CST 2005

I did exactly what you did 11 months ago, and was flabbergasted as to how
much a 64bit workstation cost, just to play with x64. Yikes!

I'll let you in on a cool hack.
Just remember that I called it a 'hack,' exactly what it is, but if you are
technically inclined, you will enjoy great benefits at great price.

Level 1 hack:
You can get a dell server for about $499, depending on the deal you grab at
the moment.
I got one last year, and its a dual capable xeon 3ghz, 160GB SATA,
10/100/1000 NIC, 512MB ECC, 1 year onsite, etc.
Then you can load x64 and it works great.
Keep in mind Dell won't provide support for running workstation OS on a
server hardware.
You still have hardware warranty, of course.
Well, until you get to the next part anyway.
You can stop here, if all you wanted was a simple x64 workstation.

Level 2 hack:
The standard video is lame, but luckily, it is a card you can remove.
You can go buy a PCI Express 16 dual DVI (I bought a BFG 6600) or whatever
your fancy and install it for higher performance.
You can get a Dremel or equivalent and burr out the plastic divider on the
PCI Express slot to turn it into a PCI Express 8 slot.
Then you can insert the 16 wide video card and you now have dual DVI or
whatever you please.
Not 16, but not bad.

Level 3 hack:
If you purchased 2 servers, then you can combine them. Get the RAM, HDD, and
even the Xeon processor (you will need to order a additional CPU shroud from
Dell - not included) from the spare machine, stick it into the primary
machine, and you just built yourself a dual processor Xeon workstation for
$1k or less.
Sell the canniballized server (case, motherboard, ps, etc.) or keep it for
backup.

I have it posted on my blog and there is even a web forum for discussing
this 'dell server hack.' It has been done since the dell celeron server $299
model way back when...

I have been running it for 11 months now, with great pleasure. :D

You can even dual boot x64 and Mac OS X Tiger Intel. :P


"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
> checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
> want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
> start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
> limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
> properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
> drive" machine.
>
> Regards;
>
> John

John
Thu Nov 03 16:52:19 CST 2005

Thanks Andre, I hadn't thought of HP.

John

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:

> Then you wouldn't want a workstation in the first place. Workstations tend
> to be for technical environments and tend to be expensive. In your case you
> want something you can afford and be able to do testing with. I would
> suggest you check out the HP Pavillion desktops. All 64 bit machines can
> handle 32 bit programs, 64 bit processors from AMD and Intel run 32 bit
> Windows XP which runs 32 bit software just fine. Running 32 bit software on
> 64 bit Windows is another story, most applications will run just fine with
> the exception of those that 16-bit and 32-bit applications that use 16 bit
> installers. You will likely encounter
> hardware problems with Printers, Scanners and some digital cameras that use
> Firewire. I would recommend you give XP Pro x64 a try in a dual boot
> configuration first before committing and its also recommended you keep back
> XP x86 in a dual boot configuration just in case you encounter problems with
> legacy applications.
>
> Download the trial:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/trial.mspx
>
> Also check out the following post by Charlie Russel on his website about
> resolving Printer Driver issues on x64:
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64/archive/2005/06/18/54021.aspx
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64/archive/2005/08/05/61685.aspx
>
>
> a1130e
> http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?series_name=a1130e_series&catLevel=2&category=desktops/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_store
>
> d4100e
> http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?series_name=d4100e_series&catLevel=2&category=desktops/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_store

John
Thu Nov 03 16:57:01 CST 2005

Thanks Charlie. That was my first idea but I was concerned of the
difficulties of finding 64 bit drivers for the devices, so I though a
preconfigured machine might be better. But you have rekindled the idea
of the "back yard" build.

John

Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:

> Personally, if cost is a factor, I'd build it yourself. Let's you control
> the tradeoffs between functionality and cost. And also lets you make
> decisions based on what drivers are available. The real problem with the
> current crop of 64-bit machines is they are either higher end workstations,
> or they do NOT include x64 Edition and don't have good driver support, IME.
> But the better mobo mfg's are doing a better job of providing x64 drivers.
>

John
Thu Nov 03 17:06:06 CST 2005

Thanks wewa, that Dell server idea is a pretty clever one, worth
investigating. Who cares if Dell won't support it, I have a bunch of
Dells at work and in all the years I have had them I only called Dell
support twice. The first time was handled by the server/enterprise guys
in Texas, the guys knew what they were talking about. The second time
was handled by a fellow in some call centre I don't know where and he
knew less about Dell computers (or computers in general) than I did!

John

wewa wrote:

> I did exactly what you did 11 months ago, and was flabbergasted as to how
> much a 64bit workstation cost, just to play with x64. Yikes!
>
> I'll let you in on a cool hack.
> Just remember that I called it a 'hack,' exactly what it is, but if you are
> technically inclined, you will enjoy great benefits at great price.
>
> Level 1 hack:
> You can get a dell server for about $499, depending on the deal you grab at
> the moment.
> I got one last year, and its a dual capable xeon 3ghz, 160GB SATA,
> 10/100/1000 NIC, 512MB ECC, 1 year onsite, etc.
> Then you can load x64 and it works great.
> Keep in mind Dell won't provide support for running workstation OS on a
> server hardware.
> You still have hardware warranty, of course.
> Well, until you get to the next part anyway.
> You can stop here, if all you wanted was a simple x64 workstation.
>
> Level 2 hack:
> The standard video is lame, but luckily, it is a card you can remove.
> You can go buy a PCI Express 16 dual DVI (I bought a BFG 6600) or whatever
> your fancy and install it for higher performance.
> You can get a Dremel or equivalent and burr out the plastic divider on the
> PCI Express slot to turn it into a PCI Express 8 slot.
> Then you can insert the 16 wide video card and you now have dual DVI or
> whatever you please.
> Not 16, but not bad.
>
> Level 3 hack:
> If you purchased 2 servers, then you can combine them. Get the RAM, HDD, and
> even the Xeon processor (you will need to order a additional CPU shroud from
> Dell - not included) from the spare machine, stick it into the primary
> machine, and you just built yourself a dual processor Xeon workstation for
> $1k or less.
> Sell the canniballized server (case, motherboard, ps, etc.) or keep it for
> backup.
>
> I have it posted on my blog and there is even a web forum for discussing
> this 'dell server hack.' It has been done since the dell celeron server $299
> model way back when...
>
> I have been running it for 11 months now, with great pleasure. :D
>
> You can even dual boot x64 and Mac OS X Tiger Intel. :P
>
>
> "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>>Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
>>checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
>>want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
>>start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
>>limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
>>properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
>>drive" machine.
>>
>>Regards;
>>
>>John
>
>
>

Charlie
Fri Nov 04 00:36:35 CST 2005

Well, if cost is a factor, take a look at any one of the non-SLI 939
motherboards. (Don't go with 754, regardless.) Some of non-nvidia are quite
inexpensive, and work very well indeed. I have no driver issues (except the
Promise controller) on the ASUS A8V, and there are others, such as abit and
asrock, that are cheaper still. But check their drivers situations before
you plunk down your money.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

John John wrote:
> Thanks Charlie. That was my first idea but I was concerned of the
> difficulties of finding 64 bit drivers for the devices, so I though a
> preconfigured machine might be better. But you have rekindled the idea
> of the "back yard" build.
>
> John
>
> Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:
>
>> Personally, if cost is a factor, I'd build it yourself. Let's you control
>> the tradeoffs between functionality and cost. And also lets you make
>> decisions based on what drivers are available. The real problem with the
>> current crop of 64-bit machines is they are either higher end
>> workstations, or they do NOT include x64 Edition and don't have good
>> driver support, IME. But the better mobo mfg's are doing a better job of
>> providing x64 drivers.

Mercury
Fri Nov 04 02:01:52 CST 2005

I just put together an Asus A8N-E (non SLI) a couple of days ago & it was a
breeze.

The install CD seemed to have everything needed for X64 with BIOS 1005 on
the board (which I believe is needed for X2 support). Never the less, check
what you need and download all updated drivers and bung them on a CD, make
the F6 driver floppy and so on...

I have run Prime95 on it overnight with 100% success (the RAM is
inappropriate) and the CPU (stock cooler) never going over 52c during a hot
day (Prime95 torture test again). CPU is normally < 40c.

This is a low cost, but very effective system and to me a reliable and dead
easy XP64 solution. Note: no firewire and only 4 x SATA ports (RAID 0, 1,
10, JBOD) and 1GB NIC.

CPU: XP 3500+ (waiting for X2's to come down)
RAM: 2 x 512mb A-Data cheapo sticks (I wouldn't use these normally)
HDD: 2 x 250 GB Seagate with NCQ
DVD: Pioneer 110D Dual Layer 16x DVD-RW
PSU: Antec Phantom 500w fanless (using a Task 500 watt loaner)
Graphics: Albatron 6600LE PCIe,
Floppy...

The PSU was the most expensive part - the Task PSU (on loan until the Antec
arrives) seems too good to be true @ 1/3 the price. I am waiting on ECC Ram
and an Antec case - not included in the price...total cost ~$US980 here (I
am not in the US). This excludes a case, RAM and includes only 1 of the
above HDD.

Bios everything on defaults initially & no issues at all.

So I encourage you to get an anti static wrist strap and BYO.

If that mobo does not have enough connectivity for your needs then shop
around - Tyan makes some more potent systems with PCI X and so on & is a
reputable brand. Post back or check reviews for comments on mobos if you are
unsure - some makes are crappy & are usually the cheaper ones.


"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
> checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
> want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
> start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
> limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
> properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
> drive" machine.
>
> Regards;
>
> John

Colin
Fri Nov 04 16:07:59 CST 2005

You might also check CyberPower. I have found them several hundred dollars
cheaper than HP and Dell.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:uUNxssM4FHA.1148@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks wewa, that Dell server idea is a pretty clever one, worth
> investigating. Who cares if Dell won't support it, I have a bunch of
> Dells at work and in all the years I have had them I only called Dell
> support twice. The first time was handled by the server/enterprise guys
> in Texas, the guys knew what they were talking about. The second time was
> handled by a fellow in some call centre I don't know where and he knew
> less about Dell computers (or computers in general) than I did!
>
> John
>
> wewa wrote:
>
>> I did exactly what you did 11 months ago, and was flabbergasted as to how
>> much a 64bit workstation cost, just to play with x64. Yikes!
>>
>> I'll let you in on a cool hack.
>> Just remember that I called it a 'hack,' exactly what it is, but if you
>> are technically inclined, you will enjoy great benefits at great price.
>>
>> Level 1 hack:
>> You can get a dell server for about $499, depending on the deal you grab
>> at the moment.
>> I got one last year, and its a dual capable xeon 3ghz, 160GB SATA,
>> 10/100/1000 NIC, 512MB ECC, 1 year onsite, etc.
>> Then you can load x64 and it works great.
>> Keep in mind Dell won't provide support for running workstation OS on a
>> server hardware.
>> You still have hardware warranty, of course.
>> Well, until you get to the next part anyway.
>> You can stop here, if all you wanted was a simple x64 workstation.
>>
>> Level 2 hack:
>> The standard video is lame, but luckily, it is a card you can remove.
>> You can go buy a PCI Express 16 dual DVI (I bought a BFG 6600) or
>> whatever your fancy and install it for higher performance.
>> You can get a Dremel or equivalent and burr out the plastic divider on
>> the PCI Express slot to turn it into a PCI Express 8 slot.
>> Then you can insert the 16 wide video card and you now have dual DVI or
>> whatever you please.
>> Not 16, but not bad.
>>
>> Level 3 hack:
>> If you purchased 2 servers, then you can combine them. Get the RAM, HDD,
>> and even the Xeon processor (you will need to order a additional CPU
>> shroud from Dell - not included) from the spare machine, stick it into
>> the primary machine, and you just built yourself a dual processor Xeon
>> workstation for $1k or less.
>> Sell the canniballized server (case, motherboard, ps, etc.) or keep it
>> for backup.
>>
>> I have it posted on my blog and there is even a web forum for discussing
>> this 'dell server hack.' It has been done since the dell celeron server
>> $299 model way back when...
>>
>> I have been running it for 11 months now, with great pleasure. :D
>>
>> You can even dual boot x64 and Mac OS X Tiger Intel. :P
>>
>>
>> "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation?
>>>I checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey.
>>>I want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
>>>start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a
>>>bit limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit
>>>programs properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on
>>>this "test drive" machine.
>>>
>>>Regards;
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>

Andre
Fri Nov 04 17:08:55 CST 2005

That is a great tip Wewa, thanks.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

"wewa" <wewa@no.mail.4me> wrote in message
news:eIMbZN%233FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>I did exactly what you did 11 months ago, and was flabbergasted as to how
>much a 64bit workstation cost, just to play with x64. Yikes!
>
> I'll let you in on a cool hack.
> Just remember that I called it a 'hack,' exactly what it is, but if you
> are technically inclined, you will enjoy great benefits at great price.
>
> Level 1 hack:
> You can get a dell server for about $499, depending on the deal you grab
> at the moment.
> I got one last year, and its a dual capable xeon 3ghz, 160GB SATA,
> 10/100/1000 NIC, 512MB ECC, 1 year onsite, etc.
> Then you can load x64 and it works great.
> Keep in mind Dell won't provide support for running workstation OS on a
> server hardware.
> You still have hardware warranty, of course.
> Well, until you get to the next part anyway.
> You can stop here, if all you wanted was a simple x64 workstation.
>
> Level 2 hack:
> The standard video is lame, but luckily, it is a card you can remove.
> You can go buy a PCI Express 16 dual DVI (I bought a BFG 6600) or whatever
> your fancy and install it for higher performance.
> You can get a Dremel or equivalent and burr out the plastic divider on the
> PCI Express slot to turn it into a PCI Express 8 slot.
> Then you can insert the 16 wide video card and you now have dual DVI or
> whatever you please.
> Not 16, but not bad.
>
> Level 3 hack:
> If you purchased 2 servers, then you can combine them. Get the RAM, HDD,
> and even the Xeon processor (you will need to order a additional CPU
> shroud from Dell - not included) from the spare machine, stick it into the
> primary machine, and you just built yourself a dual processor Xeon
> workstation for $1k or less.
> Sell the canniballized server (case, motherboard, ps, etc.) or keep it for
> backup.
>
> I have it posted on my blog and there is even a web forum for discussing
> this 'dell server hack.' It has been done since the dell celeron server
> $299 model way back when...
>
> I have been running it for 11 months now, with great pleasure. :D
>
> You can even dual boot x64 and Mac OS X Tiger Intel. :P
>
>
> "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation?
>> I checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey.
>> I want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
>> start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a
>> bit limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit
>> programs properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on
>> this "test drive" machine.
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>> John
>
>

John
Fri Nov 04 23:34:20 CST 2005

Hi Charlie. Cost is a factor but not at all costs, if you know what I
mean. I don't want to spend money on substandard or dead end hardware.
The hardware that I buy today might be completely obsolete tomorrow,
but I want to be in the right technology track for the next generation,
the learning curve thing. I have always been partial to Intel boards, I
like their reliability, their innovation and their excellent support.
Almost all board driver and board .inf files are easily available on the
Intel site and their site is one I know my way around.

I also know that AMD is very innovative and that their boards often turn
Intel boards upside down on their heads. I have been told, or read that
AMD 64 bit boards/processors are better at handling 32 bit applications
than Intel boards. Mind you when I read that I don't think that the
EM64T was released, they were talking about the Itanium Family. What's
your take on this? Do the Intel EM64T processors approach the AMD 32/64
bit compatibility? Also, what about these ASUS boards? Other than
Intel or AMD it's probably the only other board that I might feel
comfortable with but that would be a leap of faith at this time.

I know that this 32 bit software compatibility issue might sound crazy
for someone wanting to move to the 64 bit platform but having a 64 bit
workstation that can't run hardly any software is like having one of
these computers 25 years ago that could only turn LED's on and off.
Also, my software is worth many times the cost of the priciest
workstation. I don't intend just yet to pay to upgrade all that
software to 64 bit when (or if) it becomes available, and certainly not
for a test environment. When I decide to migrate the software to 64 bit
the price of the hardware will be peanuts to the cost of the software.

And finally yes, I'm talking workstation. CAD/CAM and engineering
applications. Test environment. I don't think SLI is a concern right
now, just the 64 bit processing stepping stone.

Regards;

John

Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:
> Well, if cost is a factor, take a look at any one of the non-SLI 939
> motherboards. (Don't go with 754, regardless.) Some of non-nvidia are quite
> inexpensive, and work very well indeed. I have no driver issues (except the
> Promise controller) on the ASUS A8V, and there are others, such as abit and
> asrock, that are cheaper still. But check their drivers situations before
> you plunk down your money.
>

John
Fri Nov 04 23:45:18 CST 2005

Yes indeed. Especially the Dual Xeon times twice the memory one!

John

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:

> That is a great tip Wewa, thanks.

John
Sat Nov 05 00:31:34 CST 2005

I'll look into that, could very well be that the cheapest thing right
now might be the right thing to do. I do have SCSI controller issues to
think about and good board support, for cheap of course. Just for test
right now.

John

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> You might also check CyberPower. I have found them several hundred dollars
> cheaper than HP and Dell.
>

John
Sat Nov 05 00:38:14 CST 2005

What's your take on these ASUS boards? Firewire no big deal to me, RAID
or SCSI controller support is.

John

Mercury wrote:

> I just put together an Asus A8N-E (non SLI) a couple of days ago & it was a
> breeze.
>
> The install CD seemed to have everything needed for X64 with BIOS 1005 on
> the board (which I believe is needed for X2 support). Never the less, check
> what you need and download all updated drivers and bung them on a CD, make
> the F6 driver floppy and so on...
>
> I have run Prime95 on it overnight with 100% success (the RAM is
> inappropriate) and the CPU (stock cooler) never going over 52c during a hot
> day (Prime95 torture test again). CPU is normally < 40c.
>
> This is a low cost, but very effective system and to me a reliable and dead
> easy XP64 solution. Note: no firewire and only 4 x SATA ports (RAID 0, 1,
> 10, JBOD) and 1GB NIC.
>
> CPU: XP 3500+ (waiting for X2's to come down)
> RAM: 2 x 512mb A-Data cheapo sticks (I wouldn't use these normally)
> HDD: 2 x 250 GB Seagate with NCQ
> DVD: Pioneer 110D Dual Layer 16x DVD-RW
> PSU: Antec Phantom 500w fanless (using a Task 500 watt loaner)
> Graphics: Albatron 6600LE PCIe,
> Floppy...
>
> The PSU was the most expensive part - the Task PSU (on loan until the Antec
> arrives) seems too good to be true @ 1/3 the price. I am waiting on ECC Ram
> and an Antec case - not included in the price...total cost ~$US980 here (I
> am not in the US). This excludes a case, RAM and includes only 1 of the
> above HDD.
>
> Bios everything on defaults initially & no issues at all.
>
> So I encourage you to get an anti static wrist strap and BYO.
>
> If that mobo does not have enough connectivity for your needs then shop
> around - Tyan makes some more potent systems with PCI X and so on & is a
> reputable brand. Post back or check reviews for comments on mobos if you are
> unsure - some makes are crappy & are usually the cheaper ones.
>
>
> "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>>Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
>>checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
>>want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
>>start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
>>limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
>>properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
>>drive" machine.
>>
>>Regards;
>>
>>John
>
>
>

Charlie
Sat Nov 05 16:34:34 CST 2005

There is no difference in compatibility between Intel EM64T and AMD64. That
being said, I find the AMD64 offerings a bit stronger, at this point for the
sort of work I do.

On motherboards? I've been happy with ASUS, even though they're more of an
Intel mobo manufacturer than an AMD one. They have a new pair of AMD and
Intel mobos out with dual x16 video that are absolute screamers, from all
reports.

DFI LanParty mobos are probably the top of the AMD tree, right now, with the
exception of that new ASUS. On the other hand, my last two mobos were plain
jane, ASUS mobos based on VIA chipsets. Not exciting, and only lowly AGP
graphics, but they are solid boards that have me up and running without
issue in x64 Edition for a good deal less money than if I'd had to buy new
video cards, etc. And I don't game anyway. :)


--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

John John wrote:
> Hi Charlie. Cost is a factor but not at all costs, if you know what I
> mean. I don't want to spend money on substandard or dead end hardware.
> The hardware that I buy today might be completely obsolete tomorrow,
> but I want to be in the right technology track for the next generation,
> the learning curve thing. I have always been partial to Intel boards, I
> like their reliability, their innovation and their excellent support.
> Almost all board driver and board .inf files are easily available on the
> Intel site and their site is one I know my way around.
>
> I also know that AMD is very innovative and that their boards often turn
> Intel boards upside down on their heads. I have been told, or read that
> AMD 64 bit boards/processors are better at handling 32 bit applications
> than Intel boards. Mind you when I read that I don't think that the
> EM64T was released, they were talking about the Itanium Family. What's
> your take on this? Do the Intel EM64T processors approach the AMD 32/64
> bit compatibility? Also, what about these ASUS boards? Other than
> Intel or AMD it's probably the only other board that I might feel
> comfortable with but that would be a leap of faith at this time.
>
> I know that this 32 bit software compatibility issue might sound crazy
> for someone wanting to move to the 64 bit platform but having a 64 bit
> workstation that can't run hardly any software is like having one of
> these computers 25 years ago that could only turn LED's on and off.
> Also, my software is worth many times the cost of the priciest
> workstation. I don't intend just yet to pay to upgrade all that
> software to 64 bit when (or if) it becomes available, and certainly not
> for a test environment. When I decide to migrate the software to 64 bit
> the price of the hardware will be peanuts to the cost of the software.
>
> And finally yes, I'm talking workstation. CAD/CAM and engineering
> applications. Test environment. I don't think SLI is a concern right
> now, just the 64 bit processing stepping stone.
>
> Regards;
>
> John
>
> Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:
>> Well, if cost is a factor, take a look at any one of the non-SLI 939
>> motherboards. (Don't go with 754, regardless.) Some of non-nvidia are
>> quite inexpensive, and work very well indeed. I have no driver issues
>> (except the Promise controller) on the ASUS A8V, and there are others,
>> such as abit and asrock, that are cheaper still. But check their drivers
>> situations before you plunk down your money.

Mercury
Sat Nov 05 17:47:28 CST 2005

I consider Asus a "Tier 1" mobo producer in the desktop / workstation class.

Quality of assembly: as good as any.
Quality of design: Top of the consumer range.
Quality of BIOS etc: If there is a BIOS bug they fix it, they persist in
maintaining BIOS and keeping BIOS / Firmware up to date for the product
life.

You get what you pay for. If you want an economy board (EG with a Via or SIS
chipset) then Asus make these too so are susceptible to the bugs these lower
cost chipset board introduce. The Via K8T800, *not* K8T890 family of boards
appear to be an exception...IE reliable from the outset - that is more a Via
achievement than Asus tho.

The best way to pick the motherbord is to list what you *do* need and look
for a match in specs keeping in mind that you can always use add-in PCI e/x
cards. Some prefer SCSI etc. controllers not to be on the mobo, often the
mobo embedded controller is a very cost effective way of geting such a
controller EG SCSI, SCSI RAID, SATA RAID. Don't put up with marketing BS
some makers have - products and features that amount to nought usefulness.

Some gotchas I have found over the years on Tier 2 vendors is that the
product may be released without a usable BIOS, BIOS Upgrades are slow to
come, BIOS upgrades fail to include embedded RAID controller firmware
upgrades, embedded SCSI controller (1 particular occasion) is performance /
feature limited & this becomes apparent only in use :(

So, look for recommendations for specific boards or makes - Asus is good.

The A8N32-SLI will be out soon.


HTH

"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:uI6D$Nd4FHA.3444@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> What's your take on these ASUS boards? Firewire no big deal to me, RAID
> or SCSI controller support is.
>
> John
>
> Mercury wrote:
>
>> I just put together an Asus A8N-E (non SLI) a couple of days ago & it was
>> a breeze.
>>
>> The install CD seemed to have everything needed for X64 with BIOS 1005 on
>> the board (which I believe is needed for X2 support). Never the less,
>> check what you need and download all updated drivers and bung them on a
>> CD, make the F6 driver floppy and so on...
>>
>> I have run Prime95 on it overnight with 100% success (the RAM is
>> inappropriate) and the CPU (stock cooler) never going over 52c during a
>> hot day (Prime95 torture test again). CPU is normally < 40c.
>>
>> This is a low cost, but very effective system and to me a reliable and
>> dead easy XP64 solution. Note: no firewire and only 4 x SATA ports (RAID
>> 0, 1, 10, JBOD) and 1GB NIC.
>>
>> CPU: XP 3500+ (waiting for X2's to come down)
>> RAM: 2 x 512mb A-Data cheapo sticks (I wouldn't use these normally)
>> HDD: 2 x 250 GB Seagate with NCQ
>> DVD: Pioneer 110D Dual Layer 16x DVD-RW
>> PSU: Antec Phantom 500w fanless (using a Task 500 watt loaner)
>> Graphics: Albatron 6600LE PCIe,
>> Floppy...
>>
>> The PSU was the most expensive part - the Task PSU (on loan until the
>> Antec arrives) seems too good to be true @ 1/3 the price. I am waiting on
>> ECC Ram and an Antec case - not included in the price...total cost
>> ~$US980 here (I am not in the US). This excludes a case, RAM and includes
>> only 1 of the above HDD.
>>
>> Bios everything on defaults initially & no issues at all.
>>
>> So I encourage you to get an anti static wrist strap and BYO.
>>
>> If that mobo does not have enough connectivity for your needs then shop
>> around - Tyan makes some more potent systems with PCI X and so on & is a
>> reputable brand. Post back or check reviews for comments on mobos if you
>> are unsure - some makes are crappy & are usually the cheaper ones.
>>
>>
>> "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation?
>>>I checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey.
>>>I want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
>>>start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a
>>>bit limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit
>>>programs properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on
>>>this "test drive" machine.
>>>
>>>Regards;
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>

Jean-Baptiste
Sat Nov 05 17:55:30 CST 2005

Dell Precision 670. Excellent. Not that expensive.

"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:e1nfTr83FHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Can anyone suggest a good choice for a preconfigured 64 bit workstation? I
> checked Dell and Sun Microsystem but these machines are pretty pricey. I
> want something for test environment (ok a play toy). I would like to
> start on the 64 bit journey. Being that 64 bit software choices are a bit
> limited at the present I want a machine that can handle 32 bit programs
> properly as well. Finally, I don't want to spend a fortune on this "test
> drive" machine.
>
> Regards;
>
> John