Vista

I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300 chip.
I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going to
the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have problems
running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the program
in 32-bit mode?

Charlie
Sat Dec 23 15:30:26 CST 2006

Your license for Windows Vista will support either 32-bit or 64-bit
versions. There's a whitepaper I wrote for XP x64 on the Microsoft site that
is still pretty close even for Vista, though I think we'll see a definite
shift as more and more copies of Vista are out there and being used.

http://download.microsoft.com/download/B/8/6/B868C664-13FC-4F91-9651-5B6D4F1A2F60/Is_Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition_Right_for_Me.doc



--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


"ericf10" <ericf10@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4D288369-FC6E-46BF-849B-C4166A8F1811@microsoft.com...
>I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300
>chip.
> I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
> upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going
> to
> the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have
> problems
> running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the
> program
> in 32-bit mode?
>

John
Sat Dec 23 16:08:12 CST 2006

Personally I have had an awful experience getting older programs to run on
Vista64. !6-bit won't run, anything with a driver may not install or work
properly. Many programs which you would intuitively think would run won't.
Example, Microsoft Reference Library 2006 warns that you may do damage to
your system if you install it. huh? Roxio 8 has unsigned drivers, one gets
by and the system won't restart. Even after you remove the driver you get
such a mess of a system you end up reinstalling. A scheduling program which
interfaces with the clock won't work on 64-bit (XP or Vista).


"ericf10" <ericf10@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4D288369-FC6E-46BF-849B-C4166A8F1811@microsoft.com...
>I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300
>chip.
> I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
> upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going
> to
> the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have
> problems
> running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the
> program
> in 32-bit mode?
>

DP
Sat Dec 23 18:23:37 CST 2006


"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:ONpOd7tJHHA.448@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Personally I have had an awful experience getting older programs to run on
> Vista64. !6-bit won't run, anything with a driver may not install or work
> properly. Many programs which you would intuitively think would run
> won't. Example, Microsoft Reference Library 2006 warns that you may do
> damage to your system if you install it. huh? Roxio 8 has unsigned
> drivers, one gets by and the system won't restart. Even after you remove
> the driver you get such a mess of a system you end up reinstalling. A
> scheduling program which interfaces with the clock won't work on 64-bit
> (XP or Vista).
>


But do any of those things work even in the 32-bit version of Vista?
In other words, is 64-bit the problem? Or is it Vista?

Colin
Sat Dec 23 18:28:16 CST 2006

If you are running MCE I don't think you can take advantage of an upgrade
program. There is no upgrade path between XP 32bit and Vista 64bit. I
believe that you will need to purchase a full edition of Vista x64. You
will not be able to use the upgrade functionality of Vista x64. It requires
a clean installation.

"ericf10" <ericf10@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4D288369-FC6E-46BF-849B-C4166A8F1811@microsoft.com...
>I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300
>chip.
> I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
> upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going
> to
> the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have
> problems
> running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the
> program
> in 32-bit mode?
>

ericf10
Sat Dec 23 19:40:00 CST 2006

Thanks for the input Colin. You are right as I noticed that HP does not
offer an Express Upgrade via the website program. I will try to call on
Tuesday to see if the customer service rep. will allow for the 64-bit version.

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

> If you are running MCE I don't think you can take advantage of an upgrade
> program. There is no upgrade path between XP 32bit and Vista 64bit. I
> believe that you will need to purchase a full edition of Vista x64. You
> will not be able to use the upgrade functionality of Vista x64. It requires
> a clean installation.
>
> "ericf10" <ericf10@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:4D288369-FC6E-46BF-849B-C4166A8F1811@microsoft.com...
> >I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300
> >chip.
> > I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
> > upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going
> > to
> > the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have
> > problems
> > running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the
> > program
> > in 32-bit mode?
> >
>

John
Sat Dec 23 20:20:04 CST 2006

Roxio 8 is a Vista64 problem with unsigned drivers, Ref Lib is a Vista
problem. 16 bit is a Vista64 problem. The scheduling program is a 64-bit
problem on XP and Vista.

"DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
news:O3YQGHvJHHA.4244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:ONpOd7tJHHA.448@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Personally I have had an awful experience getting older programs to run
>> on Vista64. !6-bit won't run, anything with a driver may not install or
>> work properly. Many programs which you would intuitively think would run
>> won't. Example, Microsoft Reference Library 2006 warns that you may do
>> damage to your system if you install it. huh? Roxio 8 has unsigned
>> drivers, one gets by and the system won't restart. Even after you remove
>> the driver you get such a mess of a system you end up reinstalling. A
>> scheduling program which interfaces with the clock won't work on 64-bit
>> (XP or Vista).
>>
>
>
> But do any of those things work even in the 32-bit version of Vista?
> In other words, is 64-bit the problem? Or is it Vista?
>
>

Colin
Sat Dec 23 20:46:18 CST 2006

Unfortunately, XP Pro x64 is not eligible for the express upgrade program.
It would need to be to get a 64bit express upgrade coupon. Let us know what
the rep says.

"ericf10" <ericf10@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9B2EBC0C-CE68-4C3B-866D-5C708D3789B2@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the input Colin. You are right as I noticed that HP does not
> offer an Express Upgrade via the website program. I will try to call on
> Tuesday to see if the customer service rep. will allow for the 64-bit
> version.
>

Colin
Sat Dec 23 20:48:09 CST 2006

EMC 9 works on Vista x64 fine.

"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:unkCMIwJHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Roxio 8 is a Vista64 problem with unsigned drivers, Ref Lib is a Vista
> problem. 16 bit is a Vista64 problem. The scheduling program is a 64-bit
> problem on XP and Vista.
>
> "DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
> news:O3YQGHvJHHA.4244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

RR
Sun Dec 24 03:13:27 CST 2006

ericf10 wrote:
> I recently purchased a HP Windows MCE PC with an Intel Core 2 Duo 6300 chip.
> I am looking at the Vista upgrade program and trying to decide if I should
> upgrade to the 32-bit or 64-bit version. What are the advantages of going to
> the 64-bit version of the OS? Will some (older) applications have problems
> running on this platform or does Microsoft have an option to run the program
> in 32-bit mode?
>
well, some digital camara software like Olympus Master Software and
virus scanners like McAfee's VirusScan and Symantecs Norton AntiVirus
will not work and will not even install on 64bit platforms.

Lets get in gear McAfee and Symantec ....

John
Sun Dec 24 08:07:15 CST 2006

Will some (older) applications have problems running on this platform

Just answering the question asked. I don't have 16-bit programs myself.
EMC 8 is less than a year old. Another $70-99 of extra cost. I personally
have close to $1000 in programs that will need to be replaced plus the cost
of Vista.



"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C4258D32-A9D7-4CCB-8AE8-ABCDD6BBD92D@microsoft.com...
> EMC 9 works on Vista x64 fine.
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:unkCMIwJHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Roxio 8 is a Vista64 problem with unsigned drivers, Ref Lib is a Vista
>> problem. 16 bit is a Vista64 problem. The scheduling program is a 64-bit
>> problem on XP and Vista.
>>
>> "DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
>> news:O3YQGHvJHHA.4244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>

John
Sun Dec 24 08:30:58 CST 2006

I already invested in the switch to 64-bit with XP on the hardware side and
a few programs. A few programs I have kept alive by dual booting (like
Ghost), which isn't a practical way to go with production Vista because of
the RP problem.


"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:ekAXWT2JHHA.1008@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Will some (older) applications have problems running on this platform
>
> Just answering the question asked. I don't have 16-bit programs myself.
> EMC 8 is less than a year old. Another $70-99 of extra cost. I personally
> have close to $1000 in programs that will need to be replaced plus the
> cost of Vista.
>
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:C4258D32-A9D7-4CCB-8AE8-ABCDD6BBD92D@microsoft.com...
>> EMC 9 works on Vista x64 fine.
>>
>> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
>> news:unkCMIwJHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Roxio 8 is a Vista64 problem with unsigned drivers, Ref Lib is a Vista
>>> problem. 16 bit is a Vista64 problem. The scheduling program is a
>>> 64-bit problem on XP and Vista.
>>>
>>> "DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
>>> news:O3YQGHvJHHA.4244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>

Colin
Sun Dec 24 08:50:09 CST 2006

After launch one of us who is dual booting with a retail copies of Vista and
XP should call Microsoft Product Support Services and report that we keep
losing restore points just to see what the official line is going to be on
this. Unfortunately, the only copies I am dual booting are on by test box
and won't help because the XP Pro x64 is OEM through CyberPower and the
Vista is MSDN.

"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:%23nqbmg2JHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I already invested in the switch to 64-bit with XP on the hardware side and
>a few programs. A few programs I have kept alive by dual booting (like
>Ghost), which isn't a practical way to go with production Vista because of
>the RP problem.
>
>

Charlie
Sun Dec 24 09:23:30 CST 2006

Yes, it would be interesting to see what the official answer is. I know what
the effective answer is - don't do that. ;)

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:859488A1-B087-4DAF-8974-C6E5207DB038@microsoft.com...
> After launch one of us who is dual booting with a retail copies of Vista
> and XP should call Microsoft Product Support Services and report that we
> keep losing restore points just to see what the official line is going to
> be on this. Unfortunately, the only copies I am dual booting are on by
> test box and won't help because the XP Pro x64 is OEM through CyberPower
> and the Vista is MSDN.
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:%23nqbmg2JHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>I already invested in the switch to 64-bit with XP on the hardware side
>>and a few programs. A few programs I have kept alive by dual booting
>>(like Ghost), which isn't a practical way to go with production Vista
>>because of the RP problem.
>>
>>
>

Colin
Sun Dec 24 09:47:12 CST 2006

Dual-booting is going to be one of those pieces of knee-jerk advice carried
over from past experience by self-annointed gurus. This time it's going to
cost serious folks important data.

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message
news:B1AEBF10-5513-4496-97D0-64897975F899@microsoft.com...
> Yes, it would be interesting to see what the official answer is. I know
> what the effective answer is - don't do that. ;)
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

Charlie
Sun Dec 24 11:44:48 CST 2006

If you're serious, you have no business depending on shadow copies. ;)

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:EE1420EB-0628-4A2D-9F0D-8BA8DC9EDDD7@microsoft.com...
> Dual-booting is going to be one of those pieces of knee-jerk advice
> carried over from past experience by self-annointed gurus. This time it's
> going to cost serious folks important data.
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message
> news:B1AEBF10-5513-4496-97D0-64897975F899@microsoft.com...
>> Yes, it would be interesting to see what the official answer is. I know
>> what the effective answer is - don't do that. ;)
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
>

Dennis
Sun Dec 24 12:25:26 CST 2006

Colin:
I'm currently on vacation using my laptop. With Vista Enterprise x64
on my test computer, I dual boot with no problems. When I setup Vista I also
setup BitLocker and don't have the volsnap issue. I also agree that dual
booting isn't normal on a production computer and eventually I'll learn how
to setup virtual machines. Have a great holiday season.

--
Dennis Pack
Vista Enterprise x86
Office 2007
"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:EE1420EB-0628-4A2D-9F0D-8BA8DC9EDDD7@microsoft.com...
> Dual-booting is going to be one of those pieces of knee-jerk advice
> carried over from past experience by self-annointed gurus. This time it's
> going to cost serious folks important data.
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message
> news:B1AEBF10-5513-4496-97D0-64897975F899@microsoft.com...
>> Yes, it would be interesting to see what the official answer is. I know
>> what the effective answer is - don't do that. ;)
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
>

Colin
Sun Dec 24 14:09:07 CST 2006

Happy Holidays to you too, Dennis.

"Dennis Pack" <dennispack@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B77FCDA5-ACD6-4930-AE29-F79C99D315F5@microsoft.com...
> Colin:
> I'm currently on vacation using my laptop. With Vista Enterprise
> x64 on my test computer, I dual boot with no problems. When I setup Vista
> I also setup BitLocker and don't have the volsnap issue. I also agree that
> dual booting isn't normal on a production computer and eventually I'll
> learn how to setup virtual machines. Have a great holiday season.
>
> --
>

John
Sun Dec 24 16:08:01 CST 2006

Maybe if you can get it. I took your suggestion and tried to buy it while
it is on sale for Christmas. After ordering with no indication of size, I
started the download only to see it is twice the size I can download within
6 hours on my satellite connection. Stopped and signed onto XP X64 where I
have a download manager and expected to do it in two sessions. After 3mb
the download suddenly stopped with an access denied. Tried 1 more time no
luck. Tried thru IE7 since the instructions said it would restart and was
told that I had tried 11 times and had exceeded the 5 attempts allowed.
Wish the hell I had take Charlie's advice never to deal with Sonic. Hope
customer service will resolve this so I don't have to hassle thru the credit
card company. NEVER AGAIN for me with Sonic.


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C4258D32-A9D7-4CCB-8AE8-ABCDD6BBD92D@microsoft.com...
> EMC 9 works on Vista x64 fine.
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:unkCMIwJHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Roxio 8 is a Vista64 problem with unsigned drivers, Ref Lib is a Vista
>> problem. 16 bit is a Vista64 problem. The scheduling program is a 64-bit
>> problem on XP and Vista.
>>
>> "DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
>> news:O3YQGHvJHHA.4244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>

DP
Sun Dec 24 19:14:41 CST 2006


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:859488A1-B087-4DAF-8974-C6E5207DB038@microsoft.com...
> After launch one of us who is dual booting with a retail copies of Vista
> and XP should call Microsoft Product Support Services and report that we
> keep losing restore points just to see what the official line is going to
> be on this. Unfortunately, the only copies I am dual booting are on by
> test box and won't help because the XP Pro x64 is OEM through CyberPower
> and the Vista is MSDN.


Off-topic, Colin, but I wanted to know what your experience has been with
Cyberpower. I bought a computer from them a couple of years ago and had
some minor problems. But they come in for a LOT of criticism from other
buyers (check out resellerratings.com).
The computer I got from them was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, so I can't
really say how their products stack up in the long term. Seemed to be
working fine for the most part until I lost it.

What was your experience?

Colin
Sun Dec 24 20:11:29 CST 2006

I have had two good boxes. On my first one they didn't install the extra
fans I paid for and I had to have them shipped and installed them myself.
The techs are excellent. The sales folks a bit less savvy but good enough.

"DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
news:uWOERI8JHHA.1912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:859488A1-B087-4DAF-8974-C6E5207DB038@microsoft.com...
>> After launch one of us who is dual booting with a retail copies of Vista
>> and XP should call Microsoft Product Support Services and report that we
>> keep losing restore points just to see what the official line is going to
>> be on this. Unfortunately, the only copies I am dual booting are on by
>> test box and won't help because the XP Pro x64 is OEM through CyberPower
>> and the Vista is MSDN.
>

DP
Mon Dec 25 08:00:59 CST 2006


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:435172F5-06AA-421A-A57B-BCE7DBCE0AEB@microsoft.com...
>I have had two good boxes. On my first one they didn't install the extra
>fans I paid for and I had to have them shipped and installed them myself.
>The techs are excellent. The sales folks a bit less savvy but good enough.
>

I guess you were one of the lucky ones. The computer they sent me had a DOA
DVD drive, which I had to take out and send back. Small problem compared to
what others faced.
Also their ad promised a burn-in period of a certain amount of time (I
forget how long), but by tracking the order I determined that the burn-in
period was non-existent. They shipped the computer long before the burn-in
period would have expired. That meant I got the machine earlier than I could
have expected, but it also meant there was no burn-in.
Great prices when I bought about three years ago, but judging from the
complaints I read, they send out a lot of bad equipment and don't have a
good support system to deal with that.
It's always surprised me that they haven't improved. They spend a lot of
money on full-color multi-page ads in computer magazines. Often you'll see
several pages of ads for Cyberpower and in the same magazine see several
pages of ads for IbuyPower.com, which apparently is the same company.
So they have a lot of money to shell out for ads, yet continue to have
problems with the quality of their product.

Colin
Mon Dec 25 08:42:08 CST 2006

I too watched the tracker and noticed that there is no way that the boxes
could have sat on a bench for the claimed burn-in period. When it goes from
warehouse to assembly to QA and out the door in a workday its obvious. I
think the real reason I bought from them was that they seemed to be first to
actually ship new technology I wanted.

"DP" <nospam@spam-spam-spam.com> wrote in message
news:%23Rope0CKHHA.2028@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:435172F5-06AA-421A-A57B-BCE7DBCE0AEB@microsoft.com...
>>I have had two good boxes. On my first one they didn't install the extra
>>fans I paid for and I had to have them shipped and installed them myself.
>>The techs are excellent. The sales folks a bit less savvy but good
>>enough.
>>
>
> I guess you were one of the lucky ones. The computer they sent me had a
> DOA DVD drive, which I had to take out and send back. Small problem
> compared to what others faced.
> Also their ad promised a burn-in period of a certain amount of time (I
> forget how long), but by tracking the order I determined that the burn-in
> period was non-existent. They shipped the computer long before the burn-in
> period would have expired. That meant I got the machine earlier than I
> could have expected, but it also meant there was no burn-in.
> Great prices when I bought about three years ago, but judging from the
> complaints I read, they send out a lot of bad equipment and don't have a
> good support system to deal with that.
> It's always surprised me that they haven't improved. They spend a lot of
> money on full-color multi-page ads in computer magazines. Often you'll see
> several pages of ads for Cyberpower and in the same magazine see several
> pages of ads for IbuyPower.com, which apparently is the same company.
> So they have a lot of money to shell out for ads, yet continue to have
> problems with the quality of their product.
>
>
>
>
>

DP
Tue Dec 26 07:13:09 CST 2006


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C37C392B-67DD-4B4F-954C-548583B5FCF4@microsoft.com...
>I too watched the tracker and noticed that there is no way that the boxes
>could have sat on a bench for the claimed burn-in period. When it goes
>from warehouse to assembly to QA and out the door in a workday its obvious.
>I think the real reason I bought from them was that they seemed to be first
>to actually ship new technology I wanted.
>
I guess it's a roll of the dice. Judging from complaints I read, people know
about the company's rep but buy from them anyway because they like the
prices and they hope that they're not the ones who are going to get burned.
I guess for every complaint you read on resellerratings.com, there are
thousands of other customers who are happy. My experience was not terrific,
but it was not terrible.

Certainly not the place for someone who might be afraid to open up the case
to fix something Cyberpower screwed up, as both you and I had to do.

I've found a much more reputable builder, smaller but a little more
expensive, that I've come to trust. I've gotten three machines from him
already (lost one of those in the hurricane as well).

Charlie
Wed Dec 27 23:38:12 CST 2006

FWIW, I had good luck with Directron in Texas when I lived in the states.
Their prices were good, and they shipped what they said they would. And when
I paid them to build a system, it was done well and neatly, and packaged
well for shipment.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


"DP" <nospamxx@xyzddd.com> wrote in message
news:eHtba%23OKHHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:C37C392B-67DD-4B4F-954C-548583B5FCF4@microsoft.com...
>>I too watched the tracker and noticed that there is no way that the boxes
>>could have sat on a bench for the claimed burn-in period. When it goes
>>from warehouse to assembly to QA and out the door in a workday its
>>obvious. I think the real reason I bought from them was that they seemed
>>to be first to actually ship new technology I wanted.
>>
> I guess it's a roll of the dice. Judging from complaints I read, people
> know about the company's rep but buy from them anyway because they like
> the prices and they hope that they're not the ones who are going to get
> burned. I guess for every complaint you read on resellerratings.com, there
> are thousands of other customers who are happy. My experience was not
> terrific, but it was not terrible.
>
> Certainly not the place for someone who might be afraid to open up the
> case to fix something Cyberpower screwed up, as both you and I had to do.
>
> I've found a much more reputable builder, smaller but a little more
> expensive, that I've come to trust. I've gotten three machines from him
> already (lost one of those in the hurricane as well).
>
>