NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM fixmbr fixboot

So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are nonexistent in
XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden, that
even the administrator account does not have acces.

more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed from
the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.

my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux. basically
GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS formated,
and has some seirous problems.

I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to find
that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS BE?!?!

have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave me
stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can offer.

Tony
Tue Aug 16 05:32:31 CDT 2005

No, I do not think it is quite so alarming. However, something obviously has
gone wrong. The fact that you have put Linux and Grub into the equation,
shouldn't matter, either. Not on it's own, anyhow. Let's hear - these HD's
and the controller - do you have Winx64 compatible drivers ready for the
installation to 'F6' at the very beginning? Go visit the manufacturers sites
to see if anything has been updated, applies to Controller and/or Chip;
Motherboard and possibly BIOS.
Just because you've seen all this working in earlier installations, does not
imply that it will automatically work under Winx64. Anything remotely
driver-like must be expected to have compatible drivers, and older drivers
that used to work under beta-versions do not work with the release version,
since MS has since imposed new demands on the - so called, 'decoration' of
the drivers - which is done in the .INF file.
Problem is, if I understand correct, that your other windows installation
was already corrupt? This may not be an enviable situation in which to
install 64bit Windows. Perhaps I would prefer to just install something
'ordinary', next door, and launch a salvage operation from there. When
everything is under controll you will have full access to the i-net and all
the resources you migh need. Rule one: Identify all your Hardware and make
sure that compatible drivers exist, and get them lined up on floppy's at
your desk before attempting to install Winx64.

As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these commands
do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some form
or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? " But, then - if the installation doesn't
understand your HD subsystem, neither will RC.

My recommendation is to insert that other windows installation and try RC
from there, that might tell you something?

Tony. . .


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:50A30119-E745-4AE8-9807-74AF2CC9BABC@microsoft.com...
> So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are nonexistent
> in
> XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden, that
> even the administrator account does not have acces.
>
> more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed from
> the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.
>
> my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
> instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
> corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux.
> basically
> GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS
> formated,
> and has some seirous problems.
>
> I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to find
> that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS BE?!?!
>
> have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave me
> stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can
> offer.

John
Tue Aug 16 06:38:55 CDT 2005

Since fixboot and fixmbr both work fine, it is obviously a driver issue that
the drives are not being seen.


"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message
news:e$F8S3koFHA.2472@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> No, I do not think it is quite so alarming. However, something obviously
> has gone wrong. The fact that you have put Linux and Grub into the
> equation, shouldn't matter, either. Not on it's own, anyhow. Let's hear -
> these HD's and the controller - do you have Winx64 compatible drivers
> ready for the installation to 'F6' at the very beginning? Go visit the
> manufacturers sites to see if anything has been updated, applies to
> Controller and/or Chip; Motherboard and possibly BIOS.
> Just because you've seen all this working in earlier installations, does
> not imply that it will automatically work under Winx64. Anything remotely
> driver-like must be expected to have compatible drivers, and older drivers
> that used to work under beta-versions do not work with the release
> version, since MS has since imposed new demands on the - so called,
> 'decoration' of the drivers - which is done in the .INF file.
> Problem is, if I understand correct, that your other windows installation
> was already corrupt? This may not be an enviable situation in which to
> install 64bit Windows. Perhaps I would prefer to just install something
> 'ordinary', next door, and launch a salvage operation from there. When
> everything is under controll you will have full access to the i-net and
> all the resources you migh need. Rule one: Identify all your Hardware and
> make sure that compatible drivers exist, and get them lined up on floppy's
> at your desk before attempting to install Winx64.
>
> As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
> commands do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP
> in some form or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? " But, then - if the
> installation doesn't understand your HD subsystem, neither will RC.
>
> My recommendation is to insert that other windows installation and try RC
> from there, that might tell you something?
>
> Tony. . .
>
>
> "TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:50A30119-E745-4AE8-9807-74AF2CC9BABC@microsoft.com...
>> So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are nonexistent
>> in
>> XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden, that
>> even the administrator account does not have acces.
>>
>> more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed from
>> the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.
>>
>> my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
>> instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
>> corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux.
>> basically
>> GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS
>> formated,
>> and has some seirous problems.
>>
>> I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to find
>> that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS
>> BE?!?!
>>
>> have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave
>> me
>> stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can
>> offer.
>
>

TheIneffableBob
Tue Aug 16 07:12:09 CDT 2005

Actually, this is the thing. All of my devices have worked with winXP64
before. I failed to mention that the older windows version is also XP64.
this new copy is the exact same verison from the same install disk. Also,
the drivers are native to this installation, as evidenced by their loading up
when my system boots form the CD (displays the deviced and all the drives
briefly while loading up all the requisite drivers)

re:"As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
commands
do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some form
or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? ""
Actually, Ive tried this. in the recovery console, when i list the available
commands with HELP fixmbr and fixboot are not actually in the list. typing
"fixmbr /?" gives the error "command not recognized" I have also tried
copying the requisite ntldr files from the disk, knowing that they are there
in the drives root directory, though hidden. after the command "copy
G:i386/ntldr F:/" it gives access denied, which i found rather peculiar as I
am logged into the admin account (which you have to be to even load the
recovery console in the first place)

basically, Ive done everything i know of to try to repair this boot sector.
Of course, it doesnt help at all that my version of windowsXP64 is actually
the beta of a 365day liscence. yes, i do plan to buy it, but I would rather
make sure it is going to keep working first. Ill take your advice and try to
install a 32bit version of XP to at the very least reconstruct a boot sector.
(it shouldnt be vastly different, should it?)


"Tony Sperling" wrote:

> No, I do not think it is quite so alarming. However, something obviously has
> gone wrong. The fact that you have put Linux and Grub into the equation,
> shouldn't matter, either. Not on it's own, anyhow. Let's hear - these HD's
> and the controller - do you have Winx64 compatible drivers ready for the
> installation to 'F6' at the very beginning? Go visit the manufacturers sites
> to see if anything has been updated, applies to Controller and/or Chip;
> Motherboard and possibly BIOS.
> Just because you've seen all this working in earlier installations, does not
> imply that it will automatically work under Winx64. Anything remotely
> driver-like must be expected to have compatible drivers, and older drivers
> that used to work under beta-versions do not work with the release version,
> since MS has since imposed new demands on the - so called, 'decoration' of
> the drivers - which is done in the .INF file.
> Problem is, if I understand correct, that your other windows installation
> was already corrupt? This may not be an enviable situation in which to
> install 64bit Windows. Perhaps I would prefer to just install something
> 'ordinary', next door, and launch a salvage operation from there. When
> everything is under controll you will have full access to the i-net and all
> the resources you migh need. Rule one: Identify all your Hardware and make
> sure that compatible drivers exist, and get them lined up on floppy's at
> your desk before attempting to install Winx64.
>
> As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these commands
> do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some form
> or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? " But, then - if the installation doesn't
> understand your HD subsystem, neither will RC.
>
> My recommendation is to insert that other windows installation and try RC
> from there, that might tell you something?
>
> Tony. . .
>
>
> "TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:50A30119-E745-4AE8-9807-74AF2CC9BABC@microsoft.com...
> > So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are nonexistent
> > in
> > XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden, that
> > even the administrator account does not have acces.
> >
> > more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed from
> > the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.
> >
> > my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
> > instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
> > corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux.
> > basically
> > GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS
> > formated,
> > and has some seirous problems.
> >
> > I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to find
> > that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS BE?!?!
> >
> > have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave me
> > stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can
> > offer.
>
>
>

John
Tue Aug 16 07:18:36 CDT 2005

You cannot use the drivers from the beta now. You must have the latest
decorated drivers as Tony mentioned.


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:8787BDAF-39CF-458D-8974-C006ABBD8BFA@microsoft.com...
> Actually, this is the thing. All of my devices have worked with winXP64
> before. I failed to mention that the older windows version is also XP64.
> this new copy is the exact same verison from the same install disk. Also,
> the drivers are native to this installation, as evidenced by their loading
> up
> when my system boots form the CD (displays the deviced and all the drives
> briefly while loading up all the requisite drivers)
>
> re:"As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
> commands
> do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some
> form
> or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? ""
> Actually, Ive tried this. in the recovery console, when i list the
> available
> commands with HELP fixmbr and fixboot are not actually in the list.
> typing
> "fixmbr /?" gives the error "command not recognized" I have also tried
> copying the requisite ntldr files from the disk, knowing that they are
> there
> in the drives root directory, though hidden. after the command "copy
> G:i386/ntldr F:/" it gives access denied, which i found rather peculiar as
> I
> am logged into the admin account (which you have to be to even load the
> recovery console in the first place)
>
> basically, Ive done everything i know of to try to repair this boot
> sector.
> Of course, it doesnt help at all that my version of windowsXP64 is
> actually
> the beta of a 365day liscence. yes, i do plan to buy it, but I would
> rather
> make sure it is going to keep working first. Ill take your advice and try
> to
> install a 32bit version of XP to at the very least reconstruct a boot
> sector.
> (it shouldnt be vastly different, should it?)
>
>
> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
>
>> No, I do not think it is quite so alarming. However, something obviously
>> has
>> gone wrong. The fact that you have put Linux and Grub into the equation,
>> shouldn't matter, either. Not on it's own, anyhow. Let's hear - these
>> HD's
>> and the controller - do you have Winx64 compatible drivers ready for the
>> installation to 'F6' at the very beginning? Go visit the manufacturers
>> sites
>> to see if anything has been updated, applies to Controller and/or Chip;
>> Motherboard and possibly BIOS.
>> Just because you've seen all this working in earlier installations, does
>> not
>> imply that it will automatically work under Winx64. Anything remotely
>> driver-like must be expected to have compatible drivers, and older
>> drivers
>> that used to work under beta-versions do not work with the release
>> version,
>> since MS has since imposed new demands on the - so called, 'decoration'
>> of
>> the drivers - which is done in the .INF file.
>> Problem is, if I understand correct, that your other windows installation
>> was already corrupt? This may not be an enviable situation in which to
>> install 64bit Windows. Perhaps I would prefer to just install something
>> 'ordinary', next door, and launch a salvage operation from there. When
>> everything is under controll you will have full access to the i-net and
>> all
>> the resources you migh need. Rule one: Identify all your Hardware and
>> make
>> sure that compatible drivers exist, and get them lined up on floppy's at
>> your desk before attempting to install Winx64.
>>
>> As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
>> commands
>> do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some
>> form
>> or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? " But, then - if the installation doesn't
>> understand your HD subsystem, neither will RC.
>>
>> My recommendation is to insert that other windows installation and try RC
>> from there, that might tell you something?
>>
>> Tony. . .
>>
>>
>> "TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message news:50A30119-E745-4AE8-9807-74AF2CC9BABC@microsoft.com...
>> > So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are
>> > nonexistent
>> > in
>> > XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden,
>> > that
>> > even the administrator account does not have acces.
>> >
>> > more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed
>> > from
>> > the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.
>> >
>> > my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
>> > instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
>> > corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux.
>> > basically
>> > GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS
>> > formated,
>> > and has some seirous problems.
>> >
>> > I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to
>> > find
>> > that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS
>> > BE?!?!
>> >
>> > have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave
>> > me
>> > stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can
>> > offer.
>>
>>
>>

John
Tue Aug 16 07:30:26 CDT 2005

What system options does it give you to sign in when you start recovery
console. What drives and types are shown when you do a map in recovery
console. Maybe you are using the wrong drive letters for the current setup.
I'm not sure, but I would guess you should sign on as administrator for the
drive (system) that you are copying the file into.


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:8787BDAF-39CF-458D-8974-C006ABBD8BFA@microsoft.com...
> Actually, this is the thing. All of my devices have worked with winXP64
> before. I failed to mention that the older windows version is also XP64.
> this new copy is the exact same verison from the same install disk. Also,
> the drivers are native to this installation, as evidenced by their loading
> up
> when my system boots form the CD (displays the deviced and all the drives
> briefly while loading up all the requisite drivers)
>
> re:"As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
> commands
> do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some
> form
> or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? ""
> Actually, Ive tried this. in the recovery console, when i list the
> available
> commands with HELP fixmbr and fixboot are not actually in the list.
> typing
> "fixmbr /?" gives the error "command not recognized" I have also tried
> copying the requisite ntldr files from the disk, knowing that they are
> there
> in the drives root directory, though hidden. after the command "copy
> G:i386/ntldr F:/" it gives access denied, which i found rather peculiar as
> I
> am logged into the admin account (which you have to be to even load the
> recovery console in the first place)
>
> basically, Ive done everything i know of to try to repair this boot
> sector.
> Of course, it doesnt help at all that my version of windowsXP64 is
> actually
> the beta of a 365day liscence. yes, i do plan to buy it, but I would
> rather
> make sure it is going to keep working first. Ill take your advice and try
> to
> install a 32bit version of XP to at the very least reconstruct a boot
> sector.
> (it shouldnt be vastly different, should it?)
>
>
> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
>
>> No, I do not think it is quite so alarming. However, something obviously
>> has
>> gone wrong. The fact that you have put Linux and Grub into the equation,
>> shouldn't matter, either. Not on it's own, anyhow. Let's hear - these
>> HD's
>> and the controller - do you have Winx64 compatible drivers ready for the
>> installation to 'F6' at the very beginning? Go visit the manufacturers
>> sites
>> to see if anything has been updated, applies to Controller and/or Chip;
>> Motherboard and possibly BIOS.
>> Just because you've seen all this working in earlier installations, does
>> not
>> imply that it will automatically work under Winx64. Anything remotely
>> driver-like must be expected to have compatible drivers, and older
>> drivers
>> that used to work under beta-versions do not work with the release
>> version,
>> since MS has since imposed new demands on the - so called, 'decoration'
>> of
>> the drivers - which is done in the .INF file.
>> Problem is, if I understand correct, that your other windows installation
>> was already corrupt? This may not be an enviable situation in which to
>> install 64bit Windows. Perhaps I would prefer to just install something
>> 'ordinary', next door, and launch a salvage operation from there. When
>> everything is under controll you will have full access to the i-net and
>> all
>> the resources you migh need. Rule one: Identify all your Hardware and
>> make
>> sure that compatible drivers exist, and get them lined up on floppy's at
>> your desk before attempting to install Winx64.
>>
>> As for the recovery console: no, to the best of my knowledge, these
>> commands
>> do exist, not sure of the syntax at the moment, but typing HELP in some
>> form
>> or other. Perhaps "fixmbr /? " But, then - if the installation doesn't
>> understand your HD subsystem, neither will RC.
>>
>> My recommendation is to insert that other windows installation and try RC
>> from there, that might tell you something?
>>
>> Tony. . .
>>
>>
>> "TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message news:50A30119-E745-4AE8-9807-74AF2CC9BABC@microsoft.com...
>> > So, It would appear that the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files are
>> > nonexistent
>> > in
>> > XP64. or rather, they exist in the root directory but are so hidden,
>> > that
>> > even the administrator account does not have acces.
>> >
>> > more to the point, the fixmbr and fixboot commands have been removed
>> > from
>> > the recovery console, which is entirely distressing.
>> >
>> > my problem is described in greater detail in my other recent post, "x64
>> > instal error 'Hardware halted'" but in overview, I have a thoroughly
>> > corrupted boot sector as a result of a dual-boot attempt in linux.
>> > basically
>> > GRUB edited my boot sector, but did so onto a disk which was NTFS
>> > formated,
>> > and has some seirous problems.
>> >
>> > I have since tried to go into the recovery console to fix it, nly to
>> > find
>> > that fixboot and fixmbr are no longer valid commands. HOW CAN THIS
>> > BE?!?!
>> >
>> > have I simply missed somehting obivous? did µsoft forsake me and leave
>> > me
>> > stranded without a boot sector? I would greatly love any inpus one can
>> > offer.
>>
>>
>>

Tony
Tue Aug 16 09:00:47 CDT 2005


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:8787BDAF-39CF-458D-8974-C006ABBD8BFA@microsoft.com...
> Ill take your advice and try to
> install a 32bit version of XP to at the very least reconstruct a boot
> sector.
> (it shouldnt be vastly different, should it?)
>
>

And! Do not forget your Tux alternative. If you are already familiar with
that, it actually might give you more partitioning options, as Windows seems
unwilling to make other than extended partitions from any primary partition
you may already have. I don't want to make up your mind for you, just a
note - if you plan to dual-boot,(or even triple?) you might actually like to
have a couple primary partitions to start from.

And no, again, the boot sector or MBR are no different in any of those
instances, the systems have different ways of understanding the stuff - if
that makes any sense?

Tony. . .

TheIneffableBob
Tue Aug 16 10:12:02 CDT 2005

re: "What drives and types are shown when you do a map in recovery
> console. Maybe you are using the wrong drive letters for the current setup.
> I'm not sure, but I would guess you should sign on as administrator for the
> drive (system) that you are copying the file into."

my windows system is on drive letter F, so that's why my command referred to
F. I know that this is not conventional, but then neither is my system. In
general, I am able to recognize all of the drives. the SCSI contorller is
working perfectly, and I can access all of my drives as needed. I have
logged into admin for that system drive, and can do so without trouble. I can
also navigate the disk without difficulty. I cannot, however, access the
ntldr and ntdetect files in the root directory of that file, even while
logged into the administrator account. having tried to copy the file from
the i386 folder on the boot cd, it siply states that access is denied.

re: "You cannot use the drivers from the beta now. "

I have only ever had the Beta installed on this computer, and it has always
worked fine. I actualy plan to buy the public release soon, but I hesitate
to do so, if this does not first come to resolution. currently, I do not
believe it is a problem with the dirvers, but i shall attempt another clean
install with minimal hardware attatched. ideally, it will work with only the
VGA, and scsi controller attatched (and human interface, of course). If it
is, in fact a driver issue, that would explain why the system fails at the
"loading devices" stage after the first major reboot (which follows creation
of boot sector, etc) howveer, what irks me is the fact that not but two days
ago all of these drivers worked perfectly. in fact, installing Debian didn't
actually affect windows. when I booted into windows, it still worked. it was
oly after i installed Grub into the boot sector for the purpose of dual
booting that I had problems. these problems only escalated when i had ot
repair the boot sector through windows.

re:"And! Do not forget your Tux alternative. If you are already familiar with
>that, it actually might give you more partitioning options, . . . And no, again, the
>boot sector or MBR are no different in any of those instances, the systems have
>different ways of understanding the stuff - if that makes any sense?"

Unfortunately, I am not completely familiar with Linux. This was a first
introduction. although well-read, I am certainly not an expert, and there is
much i have yet to learn. I have considdered toasting windows altogether and
going pure linux, but i need to accompish certain levels of stability first,
for productivity reasons. for this reaosn, I cannot be rid of windows
altogether. not until I have learned more about linux, and have acquired the
toolsets to be as productive.

Actually, If you are well-versed in the world of Linux (specifically Debian,
"Sarge" and use of GRUB) then I would very much Like to ask some specifics.
This all started for me when Grub rote itself into my boot sector, but then
failed to recognize windows. veyr frustrating. I ultimately had the
following: default and safemode boot options for Debian, following a clean
install of linux of drive1 (for furute ref, drive0 = SCSI id 0 = the windows
disk. drive1 = SCSI id 1 = the linux disk, though im currently trying to put
windows on it to rescue disk0's boot sector.) I then manually added another
boot option for windows, and directed it to the correct partition, /dev/hda1
(sd0,0) when doing this through the linux boot manager, I continually
experienced errors in recognizing the drive, which i assume is because that
partition is NTFS formatted, which i know causes no end of trouble for
linux/unix. so, i created the new boot option and had it refer to the linux
boot sector. this more or less cloned the linux boot option. Then, in grub
(upon the next boot) I redirected it to the correct partition. the results
were this: I could load grub without trouble and boot into debian as much as
i wanted. i can also boot into windows, once. all is well and good, but then
if i ever reboot from there, the boot secotr seems to be completely buggered.
I never see Grub, nor linux, nor windows, but instead, the system goes into
what ive called the "recursive POST loop" wherein it posts, loads the bios,
loads the scsi contorller, loads/recognizes the disks, and then at the point
where it would normally load the boot manager, it simply restartes the boot
process from the post screen. it will do this infinitely until i either kill
the computer, load a boot CD (debian or windows, both work) or enter the BIOS
and tell it to boot form a different location. if i tell it to boot from a
different disk, it tries, but then posts a GRUB error 17. from another
online forum, this means that Grub cannot mount the targetted partition. I
have since attempted to install grub and Lilo both, butwith no success. (more
errors, no notes just now)

any suggestions? I knwo that this is not a Linux forum, so if you would
rather deal with this issue elsewhere, please feel free to email me at
b-tsang [at] northwestern [dot] edu

John
Tue Aug 16 11:02:27 CDT 2005

The place you need your ntldr and ntdetect.com and boot.ini is on your
system drive. I don't know SCSI but other setups (SATA IDE) the first hard
drive in your boot sequence is the drive your system is on and it is on the
active partition. That partition is where you need to have the 3 files.


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:5DF85AB4-B271-4CB6-80EA-7A2B628E0CEE@microsoft.com...
> re: "What drives and types are shown when you do a map in recovery
>> console. Maybe you are using the wrong drive letters for the current
>> setup.
>> I'm not sure, but I would guess you should sign on as administrator for
>> the
>> drive (system) that you are copying the file into."
>
> my windows system is on drive letter F, so that's why my command referred
> to
> F. I know that this is not conventional, but then neither is my system.
> In
> general, I am able to recognize all of the drives. the SCSI contorller is
> working perfectly, and I can access all of my drives as needed. I have
> logged into admin for that system drive, and can do so without trouble. I
> can
> also navigate the disk without difficulty. I cannot, however, access the
> ntldr and ntdetect files in the root directory of that file, even while
> logged into the administrator account. having tried to copy the file from
> the i386 folder on the boot cd, it siply states that access is denied.
>
> re: "You cannot use the drivers from the beta now. "
>
> I have only ever had the Beta installed on this computer, and it has
> always
> worked fine. I actualy plan to buy the public release soon, but I
> hesitate
> to do so, if this does not first come to resolution. currently, I do not
> believe it is a problem with the dirvers, but i shall attempt another
> clean
> install with minimal hardware attatched. ideally, it will work with only
> the
> VGA, and scsi controller attatched (and human interface, of course). If
> it
> is, in fact a driver issue, that would explain why the system fails at the
> "loading devices" stage after the first major reboot (which follows
> creation
> of boot sector, etc) howveer, what irks me is the fact that not but two
> days
> ago all of these drivers worked perfectly. in fact, installing Debian
> didn't
> actually affect windows. when I booted into windows, it still worked. it
> was
> oly after i installed Grub into the boot sector for the purpose of dual
> booting that I had problems. these problems only escalated when i had ot
> repair the boot sector through windows.
>
> re:"And! Do not forget your Tux alternative. If you are already familiar
> with
>>that, it actually might give you more partitioning options, . . . And no,
>>again, the
>>boot sector or MBR are no different in any of those instances, the systems
>>have
>>different ways of understanding the stuff - if that makes any sense?"
>
> Unfortunately, I am not completely familiar with Linux. This was a first
> introduction. although well-read, I am certainly not an expert, and there
> is
> much i have yet to learn. I have considdered toasting windows altogether
> and
> going pure linux, but i need to accompish certain levels of stability
> first,
> for productivity reasons. for this reaosn, I cannot be rid of windows
> altogether. not until I have learned more about linux, and have acquired
> the
> toolsets to be as productive.
>
> Actually, If you are well-versed in the world of Linux (specifically
> Debian,
> "Sarge" and use of GRUB) then I would very much Like to ask some
> specifics.
> This all started for me when Grub rote itself into my boot sector, but
> then
> failed to recognize windows. veyr frustrating. I ultimately had the
> following: default and safemode boot options for Debian, following a clean
> install of linux of drive1 (for furute ref, drive0 = SCSI id 0 = the
> windows
> disk. drive1 = SCSI id 1 = the linux disk, though im currently trying to
> put
> windows on it to rescue disk0's boot sector.) I then manually added
> another
> boot option for windows, and directed it to the correct partition,
> /dev/hda1
> (sd0,0) when doing this through the linux boot manager, I continually
> experienced errors in recognizing the drive, which i assume is because
> that
> partition is NTFS formatted, which i know causes no end of trouble for
> linux/unix. so, i created the new boot option and had it refer to the
> linux
> boot sector. this more or less cloned the linux boot option. Then, in
> grub
> (upon the next boot) I redirected it to the correct partition. the
> results
> were this: I could load grub without trouble and boot into debian as much
> as
> i wanted. i can also boot into windows, once. all is well and good, but
> then
> if i ever reboot from there, the boot secotr seems to be completely
> buggered.
> I never see Grub, nor linux, nor windows, but instead, the system goes
> into
> what ive called the "recursive POST loop" wherein it posts, loads the
> bios,
> loads the scsi contorller, loads/recognizes the disks, and then at the
> point
> where it would normally load the boot manager, it simply restartes the
> boot
> process from the post screen. it will do this infinitely until i either
> kill
> the computer, load a boot CD (debian or windows, both work) or enter the
> BIOS
> and tell it to boot form a different location. if i tell it to boot from
> a
> different disk, it tries, but then posts a GRUB error 17. from another
> online forum, this means that Grub cannot mount the targetted partition.
> I
> have since attempted to install grub and Lilo both, butwith no success.
> (more
> errors, no notes just now)
>
> any suggestions? I knwo that this is not a Linux forum, so if you would
> rather deal with this issue elsewhere, please feel free to email me at
> b-tsang [at] northwestern [dot] edu

John
Tue Aug 16 11:14:26 CDT 2005

While you are in Recovery console, what does your boot.ini if any show.
bootcfg /rebuild will build a replacement file bootcfg /scan will list
the windows installations available to add


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:5DF85AB4-B271-4CB6-80EA-7A2B628E0CEE@microsoft.com...
> re: "What drives and types are shown when you do a map in recovery
>> console. Maybe you are using the wrong drive letters for the current
>> setup.
>> I'm not sure, but I would guess you should sign on as administrator for
>> the
>> drive (system) that you are copying the file into."
>
> my windows system is on drive letter F, so that's why my command referred
> to
> F. I know that this is not conventional, but then neither is my system.
> In
> general, I am able to recognize all of the drives. the SCSI contorller is
> working perfectly, and I can access all of my drives as needed. I have
> logged into admin for that system drive, and can do so without trouble. I
> can
> also navigate the disk without difficulty. I cannot, however, access the
> ntldr and ntdetect files in the root directory of that file, even while
> logged into the administrator account. having tried to copy the file from
> the i386 folder on the boot cd, it siply states that access is denied.
>
> re: "You cannot use the drivers from the beta now. "
>
> I have only ever had the Beta installed on this computer, and it has
> always
> worked fine. I actualy plan to buy the public release soon, but I
> hesitate
> to do so, if this does not first come to resolution. currently, I do not
> believe it is a problem with the dirvers, but i shall attempt another
> clean
> install with minimal hardware attatched. ideally, it will work with only
> the
> VGA, and scsi controller attatched (and human interface, of course). If
> it
> is, in fact a driver issue, that would explain why the system fails at the
> "loading devices" stage after the first major reboot (which follows
> creation
> of boot sector, etc) howveer, what irks me is the fact that not but two
> days
> ago all of these drivers worked perfectly. in fact, installing Debian
> didn't
> actually affect windows. when I booted into windows, it still worked. it
> was
> oly after i installed Grub into the boot sector for the purpose of dual
> booting that I had problems. these problems only escalated when i had ot
> repair the boot sector through windows.
>
> re:"And! Do not forget your Tux alternative. If you are already familiar
> with
>>that, it actually might give you more partitioning options, . . . And no,
>>again, the
>>boot sector or MBR are no different in any of those instances, the systems
>>have
>>different ways of understanding the stuff - if that makes any sense?"
>
> Unfortunately, I am not completely familiar with Linux. This was a first
> introduction. although well-read, I am certainly not an expert, and there
> is
> much i have yet to learn. I have considdered toasting windows altogether
> and
> going pure linux, but i need to accompish certain levels of stability
> first,
> for productivity reasons. for this reaosn, I cannot be rid of windows
> altogether. not until I have learned more about linux, and have acquired
> the
> toolsets to be as productive.
>
> Actually, If you are well-versed in the world of Linux (specifically
> Debian,
> "Sarge" and use of GRUB) then I would very much Like to ask some
> specifics.
> This all started for me when Grub rote itself into my boot sector, but
> then
> failed to recognize windows. veyr frustrating. I ultimately had the
> following: default and safemode boot options for Debian, following a clean
> install of linux of drive1 (for furute ref, drive0 = SCSI id 0 = the
> windows
> disk. drive1 = SCSI id 1 = the linux disk, though im currently trying to
> put
> windows on it to rescue disk0's boot sector.) I then manually added
> another
> boot option for windows, and directed it to the correct partition,
> /dev/hda1
> (sd0,0) when doing this through the linux boot manager, I continually
> experienced errors in recognizing the drive, which i assume is because
> that
> partition is NTFS formatted, which i know causes no end of trouble for
> linux/unix. so, i created the new boot option and had it refer to the
> linux
> boot sector. this more or less cloned the linux boot option. Then, in
> grub
> (upon the next boot) I redirected it to the correct partition. the
> results
> were this: I could load grub without trouble and boot into debian as much
> as
> i wanted. i can also boot into windows, once. all is well and good, but
> then
> if i ever reboot from there, the boot secotr seems to be completely
> buggered.
> I never see Grub, nor linux, nor windows, but instead, the system goes
> into
> what ive called the "recursive POST loop" wherein it posts, loads the
> bios,
> loads the scsi contorller, loads/recognizes the disks, and then at the
> point
> where it would normally load the boot manager, it simply restartes the
> boot
> process from the post screen. it will do this infinitely until i either
> kill
> the computer, load a boot CD (debian or windows, both work) or enter the
> BIOS
> and tell it to boot form a different location. if i tell it to boot from
> a
> different disk, it tries, but then posts a GRUB error 17. from another
> online forum, this means that Grub cannot mount the targetted partition.
> I
> have since attempted to install grub and Lilo both, butwith no success.
> (more
> errors, no notes just now)
>
> any suggestions? I knwo that this is not a Linux forum, so if you would
> rather deal with this issue elsewhere, please feel free to email me at
> b-tsang [at] northwestern [dot] edu

TheIneffableBob
Tue Aug 16 11:38:01 CDT 2005

OK, ill try the boot.ini bit.
also, for your own knowledge, SCSI also requires the boot sector to be on
the system disc. however, unlike IDE and SATA, there is no master/slave. all
devices (harddisks, tape drives, anything) on the SCSI channel are
equivalent, until given a heirarchy by the contorller (which is itself just
another device on the chain, though traditionally it is always given id7)
for me, this is a simple matter of telling my BIOS which drive to look at,
and it will then search for a boot directory in the active parititonin that
drive. perhaps my problem lies within the "active" status of my partitions.
when i get back form work I will invesitgate further. Thanks for your help.

"John Barnes" wrote:

> The place you need your ntldr and ntdetect.com and boot.ini is on your
> system drive. I don't know SCSI but other setups (SATA IDE) the first hard
> drive in your boot sequence is the drive your system is on and it is on the
> active partition. That partition is where you need to have the 3 files.
>
>

Tony
Tue Aug 16 12:11:54 CDT 2005

Right now I am in the middle of dinner, I havn't read all this yet, but I
think you are right - generally Grub/Linux has no 'issues' as such with NTFS
partitions, not that I know of - except you shouldn't let it write to them.
You can quite easily manipulate Grub to deal with Windows boot, but you have
to follow it's own view of how the universe is looking - I cannot recount
the matter off the top of my head, I need to check my references (if I can
find them?)

Also, this is not a good Linux forum, you're welcom to mail me at
tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk and we can deal with this matter, 'behind the
scenes', as they say .

That is, in the event that this was - at least in part - directed at me. (I
think you managed to concatenate two posters, there).

Tony. . .


"TheIneffableBob" <TheIneffableBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:5DF85AB4-B271-4CB6-80EA-7A2B628E0CEE@microsoft.com...
> re: "What drives and types are shown when you do a map in recovery
>> console. Maybe you are using the wrong drive letters for the current
>> setup.
>> I'm not sure, but I would guess you should sign on as administrator for
>> the
>> drive (system) that you are copying the file into."
>
> my windows system is on drive letter F, so that's why my command referred
> to
> F. I know that this is not conventional, but then neither is my system.
> In
> general, I am able to recognize all of the drives. the SCSI contorller is
> working perfectly, and I can access all of my drives as needed. I have
> logged into admin for that system drive, and can do so without trouble. I
> can
> also navigate the disk without difficulty. I cannot, however, access the
> ntldr and ntdetect files in the root directory of that file, even while
> logged into the administrator account. having tried to copy the file from
> the i386 folder on the boot cd, it siply states that access is denied.
>
> re: "You cannot use the drivers from the beta now. "
>
> I have only ever had the Beta installed on this computer, and it has
> always
> worked fine. I actualy plan to buy the public release soon, but I
> hesitate
> to do so, if this does not first come to resolution. currently, I do not
> believe it is a problem with the dirvers, but i shall attempt another
> clean
> install with minimal hardware attatched. ideally, it will work with only
> the
> VGA, and scsi controller attatched (and human interface, of course). If
> it
> is, in fact a driver issue, that would explain why the system fails at the
> "loading devices" stage after the first major reboot (which follows
> creation
> of boot sector, etc) howveer, what irks me is the fact that not but two
> days
> ago all of these drivers worked perfectly. in fact, installing Debian
> didn't
> actually affect windows. when I booted into windows, it still worked. it
> was
> oly after i installed Grub into the boot sector for the purpose of dual
> booting that I had problems. these problems only escalated when i had ot
> repair the boot sector through windows.
>
> re:"And! Do not forget your Tux alternative. If you are already familiar
> with
>>that, it actually might give you more partitioning options, . . . And no,
>>again, the
>>boot sector or MBR are no different in any of those instances, the systems
>>have
>>different ways of understanding the stuff - if that makes any sense?"
>
> Unfortunately, I am not completely familiar with Linux. This was a first
> introduction. although well-read, I am certainly not an expert, and there
> is
> much i have yet to learn. I have considdered toasting windows altogether
> and
> going pure linux, but i need to accompish certain levels of stability
> first,
> for productivity reasons. for this reaosn, I cannot be rid of windows
> altogether. not until I have learned more about linux, and have acquired
> the
> toolsets to be as productive.
>
> Actually, If you are well-versed in the world of Linux (specifically
> Debian,
> "Sarge" and use of GRUB) then I would very much Like to ask some
> specifics.
> This all started for me when Grub rote itself into my boot sector, but
> then
> failed to recognize windows. veyr frustrating. I ultimately had the
> following: default and safemode boot options for Debian, following a clean
> install of linux of drive1 (for furute ref, drive0 = SCSI id 0 = the
> windows
> disk. drive1 = SCSI id 1 = the linux disk, though im currently trying to
> put
> windows on it to rescue disk0's boot sector.) I then manually added
> another
> boot option for windows, and directed it to the correct partition,
> /dev/hda1
> (sd0,0) when doing this through the linux boot manager, I continually
> experienced errors in recognizing the drive, which i assume is because
> that
> partition is NTFS formatted, which i know causes no end of trouble for
> linux/unix. so, i created the new boot option and had it refer to the
> linux
> boot sector. this more or less cloned the linux boot option. Then, in
> grub
> (upon the next boot) I redirected it to the correct partition. the
> results
> were this: I could load grub without trouble and boot into debian as much
> as
> i wanted. i can also boot into windows, once. all is well and good, but
> then
> if i ever reboot from there, the boot secotr seems to be completely
> buggered.
> I never see Grub, nor linux, nor windows, but instead, the system goes
> into
> what ive called the "recursive POST loop" wherein it posts, loads the
> bios,
> loads the scsi contorller, loads/recognizes the disks, and then at the
> point
> where it would normally load the boot manager, it simply restartes the
> boot
> process from the post screen. it will do this infinitely until i either
> kill
> the computer, load a boot CD (debian or windows, both work) or enter the
> BIOS
> and tell it to boot form a different location. if i tell it to boot from
> a
> different disk, it tries, but then posts a GRUB error 17. from another
> online forum, this means that Grub cannot mount the targetted partition.
> I
> have since attempted to install grub and Lilo both, butwith no success.
> (more
> errors, no notes just now)
>
> any suggestions? I knwo that this is not a Linux forum, so if you would
> rather deal with this issue elsewhere, please feel free to email me at
> b-tsang [at] northwestern [dot] edu

TheIneffableBob
Wed Aug 17 15:31:01 CDT 2005

All is well!

I have now decided to use the windows boot sector, at leats for now.
Currently, I do not have linux back on the machine, because I haven't had
time, but the boot.ini file was in fact corrupt, and upon a parallel
reinstallation of windows, it was all fixed.

you were both right (thanks Tony Sperling as well) there was some unforseen
driver issue mucking up the installation, but after removing all but he most
necesary pci cards, the installaiton continued. now it all works fine once
again. I shall be thoroughly exploring l;inux later while running off a
floppy boot disk, until such time as i am comfy with the dual boot.

Thanks to you both.

TheIneffableBob
Wed Aug 17 15:32:04 CDT 2005

Thanks! all is well (see above post reply to john barnes for details)